Dragon Age IV: The Veilguard

[Tawmis]

Hmmmmm ... after the disappointments that was DA2 and DA3, I've pretty much given up on the DA series. Sorry.

*starts up DAO instead*

Yeah, DA:O is by far the best of them. Though DA2, does have the hottest NPC (the piratey chick! RAWR!)

I did read somewhere that the graphics were a stylistic choice. We were commenting earlier on how they looked... off.

Even the story vibe seemed weird. For the DA series, anyway.

[Rath Darkblade]

I did read somewhere that the graphics were a stylistic choice. We were commenting earlier on how they looked... off.

Off? *curious* What do you mean, NBS?

Hmmmmm ... after the disappointments that was DA2 and DA3, I've pretty much given up on the DA series. Sorry.

*starts up DAO instead*

Yeah, DA:O is by far the best of them. Though DA2, does have the hottest NPC (the piratey chick! RAWR!)

I think you mean Isabela. And by the way, she also appears in DAO, but doesn't look "hot" there. Then again, nobody looks all that "hot" in DAO.

I did read somewhere that the graphics were a stylistic choice. We were commenting earlier on how they looked... off.

Even the story vibe seemed weird. For the DA series, anyway.

Weird? *confused* What do you mean, Tawm?

[notbobsmith]

I did read somewhere that the graphics were a stylistic choice. We were commenting earlier on how they looked... off.

Off? *curious* What do you mean, NBS?

Pretty much what we said earlier. The graphics in the trailer look a little dated. Like from 10 years ago.

[Tawmis]

I think you mean Isabela. And by the way, she also appears in DAO, but doesn't look "hot" there. Then again, nobody looks all that "hot" in DAO.

Yes. She's hot. In DA2. I don't even remember her in DAO?
Where does she appear in Origins?

Weird? *confused* What do you mean, Tawm?

Dragon Age always felt about... things of the world. Fighting the Darkspawn. Fighting one another. Fighting corrupt people. Fighting weird things in nature. Making hard choices.

The new Dragon Age starts off with, "We will fight the GODS!"

Just.

Meh.

It's the same issue I had with Pillars of Eternity 2. I loved Pillars of Eternity 1. IMMENSELY.

But Pillars of Eternity 2 literally starts off with a massive statue awakening and saying, "I am going to destroy the world. Bye!"

And you're expected to run around and do little side missions? Like hello? There's a being threatening to destroy the world?

It just kicked it up too many notches from what the other game was.

And the new Dragon Age feels the same.

And the dialogue.

The choices.

Watch a video on it. They've drastically changed it.

[Rath Darkblade]

I think you mean Isabela. And by the way, she also appears in DAO, but doesn't look "hot" there. Then again, nobody looks all that "hot" in DAO.

Yes. She's hot. In DA2. I don't even remember her in DAO?
Where does she appear in Origins?

Right here!

Weird? *confused* What do you mean, Tawm?

Dragon Age always felt about... things of the world. Fighting the Darkspawn. Fighting one another. Fighting corrupt people. Fighting weird things in nature. Making hard choices.

The new Dragon Age starts off with, "We will fight the GODS!"

Just.

Meh.

It's the same issue I had with Pillars of Eternity 2. I loved Pillars of Eternity 1. IMMENSELY.

But Pillars of Eternity 2 literally starts off with a massive statue awakening and saying, "I am going to destroy the world. Bye!"

And you're expected to run around and do little side missions? Like hello? There's a being threatening to destroy the world?

It just kicked it up too many notches from what the other game was.

And the new Dragon Age feels the same.

And the dialogue.

The choices.

Watch a video on it. They've drastically changed it.

*watches a video - for instance, this one*



Aha. So, in short:

- Every choice you made in the original 3 games no longer matters
- Your choices in this game are meaningless, since no-one hates you or questions you
- Your character is forced to be a goody-goody two-shoes
- You can romance anyone you like
- And "at least the game isn't a total disaster". Really, Bioware? Is this how low the bar is now?

Thanks, but ... I'll pass. Time to replay DAO.

[JasefWisener]

Wait, why is romancing anyone you like a negative

[Rath Darkblade]

Sorry; for "anyone you like", read "anyone at all". (It was late, and I was hungry, and wasn't paying attention. D'oh!)

So, basically, you can romance anyone.

[JasefWisener]

Question still stands, why is that a bad thing?

[Tawmis]

Question still stands, why is that a bad thing?

Pretty easy answer.

Preference. And Experience.

Simply viewing the videos (and I mean the official ones, long before I even watched someone playing it) - that the entire thing felt very different, and not for me (at least not at full price). Which is saying something, because I am a completionist at heart. I even made my way all the way through Mass Effect: Andromeda, it took me YEARS - not because the game was hard - it was simply because, down to the core, I absolutely HATED that game. There was nothing I liked about it. Literally, nothing. But I had bought it when it first came out, because I loved Mass Effect 1-3 (yes, even 3). It makes sense why it'd feel different - same reason Andromeda was different - is most of that creative team, from what I understand, went on to form the company Beamdog. So "Bioware" itself is hardly who used to be there.

If Veilguard ever drops down to like 10 bucks on GoG or something, I'd probably consider it. But not before then.

[JasefWisener]

The question was specifically about the romance options and how giving the player more freedom in that aspect is a bad thing.

[Tawmis]

The question was specifically about the romance options and how giving the player more freedom in that aspect is a bad thing.

That's also easy. Now, I don't know the "extent" of what Rath means by anybody.

However, Dragon Age has always explored the possibility of multiple romances - and even same sex romance (The first game, Dragon Age: Origins, included two same-sex romance options in Leliana [f/f] and Zevran [m/m], for example). Now if you can just romance anyone - again, not aware of the extent of it myself, because I've not looked into that (or saw videos on it yet) - but what made it nice that you romanced pretty much just your party members, is that it often made for a very solid story as that romance develops. If they've opened it up to a much wider audience, if you will, I can't imagine the story being great for EVERY possibility. But again, I am just speaking on the idea that the romance option was pretty much limited to your traveling companions. Not sure if Veilguard opens that up much more (like romancing random people in towns and what not). Which, hey, if what you're looking for is not a great story and just video game sex, this may be right for others out there.

The videos I have watched, however, do seem like - you can't really make questionable choices (like you could in the previous ones), and this includes speaking to party members. It seems Bioware/EA is definitely catering to "let's make sure we don't offend ANYONE" by removing choices to be cheeky. And (not sure if you've played Dragon Age?) - the world of Dragon Age is an effing dark world. It's full of horrible things and horrible people. There are demons possessing people. There's "paladins" (if you will) who keep the Mages in line. Mages get their minds wiped and become mindless drones. It's a truly effed up and dark world. So the fact that they're removing the ability to also be dark and gritty seems a little - no, a LOT - forced.

[Rath Darkblade]

However, Dragon Age has always explored the possibility of multiple romances - and even same sex romance (The first game, Dragon Age: Origins, included two same-sex romance options in Leliana [f/f] and Zevran [m/m], for example). Now if you can just romance anyone - again, not aware of the extent of it myself, because I've not looked into that (or saw videos on it yet) - but what made it nice that you romanced pretty much just your party members, is that it often made for a very solid story as that romance develops. If they've opened it up to a much wider audience, if you will, I can't imagine the story being great for EVERY possibility. But again, I am just speaking on the idea that the romance option was pretty much limited to your traveling companions. Not sure if Veilguard opens that up much more (like romancing random people in towns and what not). Which, hey, if what you're looking for is not a great story and just video game sex, this may be right for others out there.

Yes, exactly. The "romancing" in DAO and DA2 felt 'special', to an extent, because it involved only the player and members of his/her party. But, from what I understand from the video above, Veilguard allows the player to romance anybody, even some random Joe Schmoe on the street ... which sounds ridiculous.

Correction: I was wrong. As with previous Dragon Age games, the player can only romance members of the party.

The videos I have watched, however, do seem like - you can't really make questionable choices (like you could in the previous ones), and this includes speaking to party members. It seems Bioware/EA is definitely catering to "let's make sure we don't offend ANYONE" by removing choices to be cheeky. And (not sure if you've played Dragon Age?) - the world of Dragon Age is an effing dark world. It's full of horrible things and horrible people. There are demons possessing people. There's "paladins" (if you will) who keep the Mages in line. Mages get their minds wiped and become mindless drones. It's a truly effed up and dark world. So the fact that they're removing the ability to also be dark and gritty seems a little - no, a LOT - forced.

Exactly. You can't make even slightly questionable choices anymore.

And yes, the Dragon Age world has been dark from the start. In fact, In DAO, you can make a very effed-up choice very near the start: when you are in Ostagar, and you finally get the chance to visit the forest outside the encampment (in order to chase after the darkspawn), you quickly come across a scout near death. You can question him, or help him ... or KILL HIM AND ROB HIS CORPSE. (Naturally, this shocks your party members, and Alistair even calls you out for being a twisted POS).

The same kind of thing happens throughout the game, and if you make enough similarly questionable choices, you can eventually drive away some members of your party. So, your choices matter.

I never experienced this in DA2 or DA3, and it seems that way in DA4. That's one reason why I'm not interested in the DA games anymore... and that's a great shame.

So, I'm hoping to play Baldur's Gate 3, hopefully at some point when it goes on special. I've never played Baldur's Gate before. I'm excited about it.

[Tawmis]

So I dug around for a non "big company" review of it who might have some form of agenda... and found this on reddit.

7.9.

Now to start of the dialogue gets a lot better later down the line. The first big area is dedicated to basically a catch up exposition dump. But I think once it picks up it’s pretty good story wise. About the HR in the room comment… it’s not really throughout the writing? Like there’s like 3 scenes so far where I kinda felt it was iffy but honestly that’s not a game thing. That’s a BioWare thing(looking at you krem)

Combat is f*cking awesome. It gets way better as you unlock skills, and you can chain abilities together to deal more damage.

The art style 100%looks better in motion and it’s really easy to get used to. I don’t get the idea that this is the worst looking game. Origins came out when re5 came out. This is by far the best looking game.

Companions are pretty cool. Like a solid round of a dragon age party.

Rook is definitely gonna divide some people. I personally like him but I admit I really wish I could be a proper asshole sometimes. The whole idea of role playing is gonna skew some people. As someone who’s played cyberpunk and bg3 I’m fine with the options.

Honestly if you liked inquisition a lot you’ll like this game. I honestly prefer 2 to 1 because a lot more of the writing in origins does not hold up compared to 2, they make a big deal if your wardens a female, a lot of cheat SA scenes to get across its dark, and the whole ritual thing is a lot more immature than people remember. But it definitely is still peak DA. I lm really pissed though that anyone on YouTube who has a good opinion on the game is just getting bombarded with no this f*cking sucks your opinion is wrong you’re not allowed to think it’s good(like Luke Stephen’s and Jake Baldino) the games nowhere near an abomination. I swear the dragon age fandoms like the fallout fandom sometimes never can agree on something

So they at least mention combat is great and the companions are solid.

But they also confirm the lack of being a jerk as the main character.

And they say if one likes Inquisition, they should like this one. And I was not a fan of Inquisition. At all.

However, the other stuff at least sounds relatively positive.

(They also said they prefer DA2 to DAO... so I do question them a bit...)

[Rath Darkblade]

(They also said they prefer DA2 to DAO... so I do question them a bit...)

This reviewer sounds like he/she prefers visuals to roleplaying elements. Oh Em Gee, lookit all da colors! DA2 looks so much better than DAO! Who cares about your roleplaying crap!

[Tawmis]

(They also said they prefer DA2 to DAO... so I do question them a bit...)

This reviewer sounds like he/she prefers visuals to roleplaying elements. Oh Em Gee, lookit all da colors! DA2 looks so much better than DAO! Who cares about your roleplaying crap!

I didn't think DA2 looked better than DAO, to me.
IF WE EXCLUDE... Isabela. Because, she was... RAWR in DA2.

I think what killed it for me in DA2 is you were limited to the city and the "mines" - and the mines were all a rehash with just different doors blocked/locked. It was the same thing every time.

There was no sense of exploring.

I had the same issue with probably one of my all time favorite CRPGs... Realms of Arkania.

1 and 2 you are exploring cities, forests, mountains, caves....

3, you're in a city and explore some caves around the city, but mostly in the city.