SCI Pallet Undithering

[MusicallyInspired]

Regarding the conversation going on over at ScummVM, what do you guys think about the dithering vs undithering by default setting ScummVM currently has for SCI0 games like Space Quest 3, Leisure Suit Larry 2 & 3, King's Quest I Remake & IV, etc?

Right now it seems their decision to keep it enabled is that the new way just "looks better" and is what the original artist intended when they used dithered pixels. I can't agree with this because the artist (of whom creates art, art of which is dependent on the medium it is initially presented in) drew those pictures with 16 colours. They didn't just think in their heads that they were using solid colour equivalents rather than dithered colours when they created their images. They physically saw dithered colours and took advantage of them in their own artistic ways when they drew their backgrounds. For example, some images have dithered coloured jagged lines to represent subtle shading or detail. In undithered mode these are visually abrasive and harsh to look at. In dithered mode they blend in with the other dithered colours around them and camouflage the jagged lines creating a more subtle effect.

The other argument being brought up is regardless of what looks better to anyone, should ScummVM be choosing visually enhancing feature options on their supported games by default or should these options be left disabled and readily available for users to enable if they wish? Basically, should ScummVM preserve the quality and presentation of the games as closely to the originals as possible or should it automatically "enhance" everything based on the developers' own subjective opinions?

They've finally at least created a checkbox option in the GUI to enable or disable the feature which is fantastic, but it's still enabled by default. My request was to put it to a public vote in a poll on the website or something and let the fans make the decision.

What are your thoughts? Should the games always be represented in their original form by default or should they always be "enhanced"? (I put that word in quotes because enhancements are always subjective)

I should add that I'm not into starting a flame war or a heated topic, but it is an interesting and somewhat ethically ambiguous subject that I'm interested in hearing others' opinions on.

[Collector]

Edit: MI and I both started a new topic on the same subject, so I merged them.

Currently there is an ongoing discussion on the ScummVM forum about a feature that they have built into their SCI engine. This "enhancement" averages out the dithering that Sierra used to simulate more colors than the EGA pallet was capable of displaying at any one time. It was a technique conceived of by Ken himself that Sierra was quite proud of. It allowed for the beautiful backgrounds that we are familiar with in KQ4, KQ1SCI, LB1, etc., when other companies EGA games only used the 16 EGA colors, making compromises such as yellow colored flesh for the characters other close but unnatural colors. It is the "checkerboard" pattern that you see in these games that give the illusion of a color with a shade somewhere in between the two colors.

Another artistic aspect of it allowed for greater graphical detail that is available to artists working with a wider pallet. This is why the "checkerboard" pattern is not uniform. There is the suggestion of lines and shading instead of a uniform color.

The ScummVM has an SCI Pallet undithering feature that averages out the dithered colors to approximate the color suggested by the dithering. The developer of this bit of code, m_kiewitz, is rightfully proud of his work. The heuristics used gives some pretty impressive results, though not without problems. This averaged color is not quite the same as what the brain interprets the color as and the suggested shading and lines are lost. Additionally, the results are simply not what the original artist would have created, even with the wider pallet that the ScummVM undithering seems to provide.

This is a great feature, but the problem is that their interpretation has been made the default for SCI games in ScummVM. As to what looks best is entirely subjective. MI, I and other traditional Sierra fans have suggested that the default setting should be the original graphics.

Here are some examples that MI posted on the ScummVM forum

Here's what I mean regarding abrasive and jarring differences in graphics between dithtered and undithered modes.

Quest For Glory DITHERED - Looks quite natural. The colours blend in together to hide the lines on the grass.

Quest For Glory UNDITHERED - Crazy jagged lines everywhere. Without dithering, the colours transition very harshly looking like a kid took a crayon to the forest floor. Looks far less natural and realistic than the original dithered version.

King's Quest I DITHERED - The tree on the righthand side is the focus. The artist used jagged dithered lines on the tree leaves to resemble subtle depth and shading. Looks quite nice.

King's Quest I UNDITHERED - The tree now looks like a bizarre mishmash of jagged lines. Looks nothing like shading.

King's Quest I blending DITHERED - The rock in the center of the screen that you're meant to push blends in well with the background as is its design.

King's Quest I blending UNDITHERED - The rock is glaringly obvious as a game element that the user is meant to interact with. It's also visually jarring. Thus presents the second fundamental flaw in this feature's design.

The reason that I bring this up here is that I wanted to start a discussion about the feature with real Sierra fans without risking bruising egos or creating discord on the ScummVM forums. For some time now I have been feeling that the ScummVM team does not have same the kind of respect for the Sierra games that they do for the LucasArts games, which they go beyond respect to outright reverence.

So the main thing is not so much which you like/prefer more as much as what do you feel the default should be. The games as Sierra intended or someone else's interpretation of what look better. I maintain "respect the artists' work".

[gumby]

Agreed.

My feeling is that the default should always be the original, dithered images. Why would anyone (IMHO) want to mess with an artists work by default? Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the ScummVM people adding the dither/undither option - I commend them on it. Just leave all the bells-n-whistles off by default.

[MusicallyInspired]

Actually, it doesn't seem to be the whole of ScummVM who's doing the dictating here on Sierra implementation, but rather just a couple of the devs are pushing for this undithered mode as a default setting.

[Collector]

We'll see how it all shakes out. In the end I will continue to use DOSBox for most of my SCI installers. It is nice to have ScummVM support for KQ6Win and the Windows only SCI games.

[Qbix]

think they changed the defaults to use the original graphics now.

[Qbix]

think they changed the defaults to use the original graphics now.

ah that seems still to be under discussion. Well I suspect them to switch to original by default.

[audiodane]

I don't follow the scummvm forums, so I appreciate the thread created here.

I would agree that the option should be disabled by default. A case can be made that the "enhancement" feature is not universally 100% accurate (as per the few examples you posted), therefore while a really nice feature, can be considered by some (not aware of the discussion underway nor the enormous effort by which the feature was created to begin with) as a buggy ScummVM engine. I imagine that some screens have probably been presented that show the feature does in fact enhance the imagery. It would be terribly unfortunate that a development such as this could split the community or make enemies. Hopefully in can be embraced for what it is-- an optional feature thought by some to enhance the imagery of older games, and therefore be left off by default.

I also imagine the preference is stored per-game? Certainly some games may look better or worse than others with the feature turned on.

my two cents..
..dane

[MusicallyInspired]

Whatever ScummVM decides, I'll accept it. But the matter is still open for debate and I was making my case. I'm done with the thread now. Hopefully they'll make what I and many others consider to be the right decision.

[Collector]

Not to denigrate anyone, but the author of the undither is arguing in a very immature way, using many rhetorical fallacies, reusing the same invalidated arguments over and over. But the ad hominem attacks are a bit much. His ego is too tied up in it. While he obviously seems to know something about the SCI pallets, I don't think that he understands how some of them were intended to be used. Some of the additional pallets associated with the picture resources were not just because wished to display all the colors at once. Some of them served other purposes, such as control purposes to define blocks or areas within the picture resource. It allowed the scripting to distinguish between, say a house and the background sky. It also was used to do things like give a "day" and a "night" version of the same picture resource.

Granted, Hero's Quest is not an SCI0 game, but here is an example of a day and a night version of the same resource:

pic37d-v.png (17.97 KiB) Viewed 2374 times

pic37-v.png (17.05 KiB) Viewed 2374 times

The change is just from cycling the pallet.

[MusicallyInspired]

Granted, Hero's Quest is not an SCI0 game,...

Uhhh, yes it is .

[Collector]

Sorry, I was thinking it was a little later. Still the point is that the extra embedded pallets were not just wishful thinking. I don't understand why some are piling onto you when many were arguing for the same thing, even those that actually like the dithering. Caesar's comments were totally uncalled for. He has two posts total on the forum, both to attack you. He joined the forum just to take a swipe at you?

[Tawmis]

Sorry, I was thinking it was a little later. Still the point is that the extra embedded pallets were not just wishful thinking. I don't understand why some are piling onto you when many were arguing for the same thing, even those that actually like the dithering. Caesar's comments were totally uncalled for. He has two posts total on the forum, both to attack you. He joined the forum just to take a swipe at you?

Isn't Caesar also behind TSL?
Or is this a different Caesar?

[Collector]

The same.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, he's only there because of the TSL forum incident.

Either way it seems that undithering is now removed from being the default setting for the time being.