Help with SQ3 and MT-32

[ManOhMan]

HI I have searched and searched on this board and Google for an answer. I'm out of idea's and need some help.
Also this is not just about SQ3, but I could not see a proper forum to put this in. As it's about a few sierra games not just one group.

I have a AWE64 GOLD sound card and a MT-32 hooked up to it. I can play SQ4, KQ5 in real dos 6.22 just fine. I can also play other games like tie fighter or doom2 with mt-32 picked as music device, and things work fine.
But when I try and play SQ3, or KQ4 after picking MT32, my computer will just freeze up. Or in the case of QK4 I get this msg. "Unable to initialize your music hardware" and the PC just hangs. Have to hard boot. As I said other later sierra games play fine with my setup.

Now I have A multi-boot setup DOS6.22 WIN98SE WINXP
In windows xp I can run DOSBox and play SQ3 or KQ4 just fine with my mt32. The LCD screen comes up and loads fine and music is fine.

So I want to know why I can play sq3, kq4 etc just fine in dos box, but not in real dos?
Has to be something in my configs and I just don't know whats wrong.
As I said it's only the older sierra games that don't work also Silpheed.

Few things I tryed before I list my config.sys and autoexec.bat files.

After much searching I found the sentax for SET MIDI
My defalt and most ppls is
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
SYNTH 1 IS USE INTERNAL MIDI, 2 IS USE EXTERNAL.
I have tryed playing kq4 with no set midi string at all, and with SYNTH:1 and then with SYNTH:2
No luck.

I also was using the defalt pnp setup for awe64 cards in dos. I then installed the low-level drivers. By doing diagnose.exe /a
This add's the low level drivers to the config.sys file. NO games I have need this but I tryed it anyways to see if it would fix kq4 etc..


My config.sys

DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
LASTDRIVE=H
FCBS=4,0
DOS=HIGH,UMB
STACKS=0,0
BREAK ON
SWITCHS /F /W
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM /E:1024 /P
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\SB16\CTCM.EXE

AUTOEXEC.BAT

@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $P$G
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET SOUND=A220 15 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:2 MAP:E MODE:0
SET CTCM=C:\DRIVERS\SB16
PATH C:\DOS;C:\;C:\DRIVERS\SB16;C:\UTILS\LL5;C:\UTILS\SDD;C:\UTILS\NORTON
C:\DRIVERS\MOUSE\CLOAKING.EXE
SET LMOUSE=C:\DRIVERS\MOUSE
LH /L:0;3,1040 /S C:\DRIVERS\MOUSE\MOUSE
SET NU=C:\UTILS\NORTON
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
C:\DRIVERS\SB16\AWEUTIL /S

MEM
FREE CONVENTIONAL 619K
FREE UPPER 37K
FREE RESERVED 0K
FREE EXTENDED XMS 64,646K
FREE EMS 32,608K

If I install the low-level dos drivers the next two lines are in my config.sys
DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DRV\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5
DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS

BTW: any typeos in the config.sys or autoexec.bat files are from my typing them for this post.
I did not cut and past. I just typed what was on my 2nd pc screen. so device=c:dos\emm386.exe would in fact not be the real line. Just a typo.

So I know my mt-32 is setup right and my awe64 plays other games in dos with mt-32 just fine. It's just sq3, kq4, Silpheed and others that don't
But do work under DOSBox in windows xp with my mt32.

I hope that somebody can help. And that this post is not just a big incomprehensible mess.
I got my mt32 yesterday around 1pm it's now 10am the next day and no sleep. lol just LOTS of coffee, sugar, anger, and reboots.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Collector]

For the MIDI, try setting the AWE64's IRQ to 7. I don't know what hardware you have outside of the AWE64, but I am guessing at least a P3 since you are running XP on this box, too, but old enough for an ISA slot. This is too fast for the Sierra games with timer issues. The "Unable to initialize your music hardware" error is because your PC is too fast. Sierra used to recommend that users on faster PC turn the turbo off until after the game started, but PCs have not had turbo switches since 486 machines. You can try the old GOSiERRA SoundBlaster driver patch, but it was not 100% effective. As a last resort, you could try a slowdown utility before you launch the game.

This is why I prefer DOSBox over real hardware by far. And my MT-32 works perfectly with DOSBox on my Win7 machine with no buffer overflow errors. And it is like having a whole range of different DOS PCs. It is also nice to not have to deal with memory management issues.

[ManOhMan]

Thanks for the reply. It's a p3-600 Other cards are 2 voodoo2 12mb cards in sli for win98 games. I would hate to run DOSBox on my main PC and my older games. Some games just don't run right in DOSBox. Rather run on real hardware.

Anyways I changed the irq to 7 and same msg in kq4. I also tryed 2 versions of moslo. With speed's set from form 1% to 40% and same msg in KQ4. SO I don't think it's a speed issue. I tested my pc running @ 100MHz all the way down to 4MHz.

Might just buy a 286 or a XT if I can't get this to work. If you really think it's speed problem.

[Collector]

Did you set the game to use the MT-32 driver, too? If you are getting the initialization error message with KQ4, it sounds like you are using a driver that the game was never designed for. The initialization speed error is for the SB digital driver, not MIDI. Using drivers from other games can cause memory errors, lockups, infinite looping of sounds, etc. Additionally, an AWE64 is not the best card for using with an MT-32.

Most DOS game run perfectly in DOSBox, if they are setup correctly. You might be interested in these:

http://sierrahelp.com/Patches-Updates/N ... llers.html

The take all of the guess work out of setting them up in DOSBox. They are safe and, at least for the DOS games, make no system changes except for uninstall information. Most of the CD games will be setup for CD-less play. Give them a try before you setup another machine. Many swear by them.

[ManOhMan]

"The initialization speed error is for the SB digital driver, not MIDI. "

The resource.cfg file

VideoDrv=EGA320.DRV
soundDrv=MT32.DRV
kbdDrv=IBMKBD.DRV
mouseDrv=YES
It's about the same for all the sierra games I'm trying to get to work.

As I have said this happens with more then one sierra game. It happens with all the old games that use the black and white ans-ii install.exe menu system. The games that use install.exe that has a color menu system (like shads of green and blue) all them games work fine.
Other sierra games that use the old install system that I can't run in pure dos Silpheed also Thxeder.



And thanks but need no help running anything in DOSBox. Everything works fine in DOSBox. I would like to use my new mt-32 in real mode dos with older sierra games tho. Not just KQ5, SQ4 that works fine or 100 other games that work fine.

Again thanks for the replys. I'm going to bed lol head starting to hurt over this.

[ManOhMan]

I should add

If I tell Kings Quest 4 to use PC Speaker it's runs just fine. It's only when I tell it to use MT32. Same with ALL the games. SQ3 etc..

[Collector]

Do you see any SysEx messages getting sent to the MT-32?

[ManOhMan]

Nothing no blinking lcd no lights. This is what I see.

In Space Quest 3 with mt32. Game starts I get the BIG arrow mouse cursor we all know and love. Then just a black screen. I can move the pointer around but nothing. I have let it sit for 20mins + just to make sure, and nothing.

Kings Quest 3 I get that error msg ""Unable to initialize your music hardware" in a white box. and the same BIG arrow mouse cursor. Now if I puss esc the msg goes away and the curser changes to the king crown icon then my system will lock up or reboot. Both games same setup's if I pick PC speaker both games play fine.

I just got done playing sq4 for 30mins in dos with mt32 goofing around. I guess it's only a very small amount of games I can't get to work in real dos. I will just play them in windows. Just makes me mad that I can't.
Again thanks for trying to help. It has to be something in my configs if it works in DOSBox but not in dos. /shrug I'm done messing with it.

[Collector]

KQ3? KQ3 is an AGI game. AGI does not support a sound card. Only on other platforms did they support more than the internal speaker. On PC, only the PCjr and Tandy supported the three voice play noise, but not a regular DOS machine. Apple versions also had polyphonic sound. There must be something odd about your configuration to be getting that error on a AGI game. I am also surprised that you are not experiencing problems with font display in the AGI games with the newer (for AGI) graphics card.

For the MT-32 MIDI must be sent by an intelligent MPU-401 device. SoundBlaster cards were poor at this. Perhaps if you got a true MPU-401 card. Of course DOSBox is great at emulating intelligent MPU-401. You can also set it to Tandy mode to get the three voices for the AGI games.

[ManOhMan]

kq3=kq4 sorry so much typing and trying to fix crap
And I only have 1 isa slot , so can't add a 2nd card, Unless you know if you can get a MPU-401 card with PCI bus?

[Collector]

That PIII is really too recent for a good DOS machine. It is a great machine for the old Win9x games that don't run right on modern hardware or Windows, but it is too fast for many of the DOS games. It would really be best to have more ISA slots, too. If it were me, I'd just use DOSBox on the main computer for all of the DOS games and save the PIII for old Windows games.

[MusicallyInspired]

I have an AWE32 in my old 486 computer but I don't use it for MT-32 MIDI. I have a separate Music Quest card for that. I think I may have tried it once and never had an issue, though. But that wasn't an AWE64. I do know that Sound Blaster MIDI ports don't operate in intelligent mode and because of that it's generally suggested you use a true MPU-401 card or other that operates in intelligent mode instead.

[ManOhMan]

I bought a new MB with 2 isa slots and a roland MPU-401. So see what happens in a week or so when I get the items.

I just what to point this out.

PC work like this. BIOS>>HARDWARE>>DRIVERS/API>>OS>>PROGRAM>>USER

This is the basic way computers work no mater the OS or hardware.
So if Space Quest 3 works in Windows 7 with DOSBox. It should work in DOS on the same hardware.
Only thing that changes is the drivers, or the configuration of the hardware in the OS.
My questions boil down to whats wrong with my setup in DOS. It has to be driver or configuration problem.

Anyway's thanks everybody for trying to help. I have them parts on the way and I hope I can get everything working.
If not I will just buy a 286 or 386 PC for the games that don't like my dos/win PC.

[Qbix]

PC work like this. BIOS>>HARDWARE>>DRIVERS/API>>OS>>PROGRAM>>USER

This is the basic way computers work no mater the OS or hardware.
So if Space Quest 3 works in Windows 7 with DOSBox. It should work in DOS on the same hardware.
Only thing that changes is the drivers, or the configuration of the hardware in the OS.
My questions boil down to whats wrong with my setup in DOS. It has to be driver or configuration problem.

This reasoning is flawed. Think about it some more..

[ManOhMan]

You do the same.

SAME HARDWARE, run under FAKE DOS, But not REAL DOS.

Think more about it.

BTW: If you have nothing to add besides "a snide comment" don't bother. Just because you programed DOSBox, doesn't give you the right to leave zero info posts. When people are asking for information.