Dragon Age IV: The Veilguard

[Tawmis]

Since we've had a host of other Dragon Age threads here... I found this... Will post the link, but also going to copy and paste the text... and figure if we find more Dragon Age IV news, just keep it in this thread...
https://segmentnext.com/2018/11/20/bad- ... ed-anthem/

We all know Dragon Age 4 is real and currently under development at BioWare. Since the focus right now is on Anthem, a formal announcement of the next Dragon Age will take some time. Anthem is BioWare’s first live-service multiplayer game. It is in-line with EA’s live-services future; a future where even games like Dragon Age could adapt the live-services model.

The latest piece of Dragon Age 4 news is brought to us by BioWare’s Casey Hudson and Patrick Weekes – a writer for BioWare. Weeks shared a fairly ominous Tweet at the fourth birthday of Dragon Age Inquisition. The Tweet seems to have suggested that the awaited fourth installment is struggling in development.

Happy fourth birthday to #DragonAgeInquisition. Whatever happens in the future, I’m proud to have been part of a team committed to making its players’ lives better.

We have some of the best, geekiest, most passionate fans in the world, and my life is better for knowing you.

If we pair this Tweet with an earlier one from Casey Hudson, the situation becomes clearer.

Some weird stuff going around about how our future games will be influenced by Anthem. Of course, when we do a Dragon Age game it will be designed from the ground up based on what Dragon Age should be. Same with Mass Effect…

Anthem is a specific thing that’s unique from our other IPs in many ways. What carries forward is what we learn about game design, which is a constant evolution.

It seems EA might be pushing for an Anthem inspired live services model for Dragon Age 4 and devs are struggling with it. Casey Hudson’s Tweet is contradicting though. He assures fans that Dragon Age 4 will be created from the ground up and it will be what Dragon Age game should be. So a narrative-driven open world RPG? So what can Dragon Age learn from Anthem? Anthem’s game design, which is being carried to Dragon Age and Mass Effect, is based around a live services model.

Dragon Age 4 release date is years away for sure and developers have plenty of time to evolve its game design. One can only hope its evolution isn’t inspired by a live-service game like Anthem.

The other IP Hudson mention is Mass Effect and while it is great to know that Andromeda’s disaster didn’t kill this IP, it is still bummer to know the next Mass Effect could be a live-service game as well.

[Rath Darkblade]

...Dragon Age 4 release date is years away for sure...

Not trying to be a pink-spectacles-wearing optimist over here, but the last scheduled date is 2020. That's only 2 years away.

What's a narrative-driven open world RPG? *curious* Is that like EverQuest, LotRO, World of Warcraft - things like that? I'd rather stay away from those as well. They eat up way too many finite resources: my time, my money and (ultimately) my patience.

For the moment, this is all speculation. I'm sure that things will become clearer as time moves on.

[Tawmis]

...Dragon Age 4 release date is years away for sure...

Not trying to be a pink-spectacles-wearing optimist over here, but the last scheduled date is 2020. That's only 2 years away.

What's a narrative-driven open world RPG? *curious* Is that like EverQuest, LotRO, World of Warcraft - things like that? I'd rather stay away from those as well. They eat up way too many finite resources: my time, my money and (ultimately) my patience.

For the moment, this is all speculation. I'm sure that things will become clearer as time moves on.

How I read it, is that it will be more like how Diablo III has become (where they have seasons, with new goals and what not), and have that whole online community feel to it. So it, like I said how I read it, will not be an MMO (with a monthly cost and all of that).

But from my understanding, Anthem is apparently doing fairly well (although, this article seems to contract that) but Travis Day (designer of Diablo III: Reaper of Souls) says he's enjoying it but does need some fixing... and here's some information about the game:
https://www.ea.com/games/anthem/acts

To me, it definitely feels like they're using the Mass Effect Game Engine Feel to Anthem... so I wouldn't be surprised to see it used for any future Mass Effect or Dragon Age game, losing the roots of what made those games great (well, except Mass Effect: Andromeda... nothing could save that game, so far as I can tell from the gameplay I've tolerated)...

[Rath Darkblade]

Hmm. Well, I can see from that trailer that Anthem is not a game for me. Why? Well, first, because I don't like shooters - and second, because a javelin is not a full-body suit. It's a light throwing spear. But of course it's doing well... it relies on getting people to punch and kick things, and you'll never go broke doing that.

Man, I'm in a "cranky old fart" mood today.

I don't know what you mean by the Mass Effect Game Engine, since I've never played Mass Effect (although I've heard of it).

[Tawmis]

Hmm. Well, I can see from that trailer that Anthem is not a game for me. Why? Well, first, because I don't like shooters - and second, because a javelin is not a full-body suit. It's a light throwing spear. But of course it's doing well... it relies on getting people to punch and kick things, and you'll never go broke doing that.

Man, I'm in a "cranky old fart" mood today.

I don't know what you mean by the Mass Effect Game Engine, since I've never played Mass Effect (although I've heard of it).

Question about not liking shooters... What if it was wizards casting spells instead of guys shooting guns? Would that appeal to you more? (I am just curious - I don't fault you for not liking "shooters" as I am not a fan of Call of Duty and what not, and yet I played - and beat - Halo 1, 2, 3, OTSD (or whatever).... couldn't stand Halo 4 though (felt like a step backwards). I have also beat every Gears of War games, which is also pretty much a shooter. So it's weird that if there's a "Sci Fi" element to it, I may give it a try - but the more realistic shooters don't appeal to me.

So you're lack of enjoyment of shooters is probably what's kept you away from Mass Effect (Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 are amazing). Because it's Dragon Age (because it's also made by Bioware), but futuristic. So it's got "Pew Pew!" instead of "Expelliarmus!"

And what I mean by the "Mass Effect" game engine; is that it looks just like Mass Effect (the character movements and what not, and the overall look of the game). Just further polished.

[Datadog]

What would a "Dragon Age 4" with live service look like? Just endless DLC? Daily loot boxes? Quest-givers handing out free Bog Unicorns for logging in on the game's anniversary? If I hold out for five years to play it, will the game bring me up to speed by dumping 30 premium companions into my castle?

I'm nearing the end of "Dragon Age Inquisition" right now and that game has enough time-consuming filler as it is. I can't imagine the vast amount of footwork a "live service model" would add to it. And I already don't like how smart phone games prey on my collector instinct to find all their meaningless content. It's a model I try to stay away from by playing games like "Dragon Age" instead.

[Tawmis]

If I hold out for five years to play it, will the game bring me up to speed by dumping 30 premium companions into my castle?

Silly, the server would be dead by then.

[Rath Darkblade]

Hmm. Well, I can see from that trailer that Anthem is not a game for me. Why? Well, first, because I don't like shooters - and second, because a javelin is not a full-body suit. It's a light throwing spear. But of course it's doing well... it relies on getting people to punch and kick things, and you'll never go broke doing that.

Man, I'm in a "cranky old fart" mood today.

I don't know what you mean by the Mass Effect Game Engine, since I've never played Mass Effect (although I've heard of it).

Question about not liking shooters... What if it was wizards casting spells instead of guys shooting guns? Would that appeal to you more? (I am just curious - I don't fault you for not liking "shooters"...) etc.

My dislike of "shooters" is the fact that I suck at them. I tried 1st-gen shooters like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom 1, and I continually died. So I gave up. I've tried a more recent shooter - Team Fortress 2 - and I continually died. So I gave up.

As for wizards casting spells - I don't usually play wizards in RPGs. I prefer stealthy bow-shooting rogues. (Yes, I know the principle is the same, which is why my rogues normally specialise in stealth, archery and one-handed weapons. While sneaking, my rogue lets off as many arrows as he can, and if the enemy finds me, I switch to sword-and-shield. If all else fails, my rogue turn around and run like hell. Yes, it's cowardly, but being a coward's better than being dead.)

This tactic is useless in "shooters", where the enemy's guns and whatnot are far deadlier than arrows or spells. I died far more in "shooters" than I ever did in RPGs. That's why I prefer RPGs.

What would a "Dragon Age 4" with live service look like? Just endless DLC? Daily loot boxes? Quest-givers handing out free Bog Unicorns for logging in on the game's anniversary? If I hold out for five years to play it, will the game bring me up to speed by dumping 30 premium companions into my castle?

I'm nearing the end of "Dragon Age Inquisition" right now and that game has enough time-consuming filler as it is. I can't imagine the vast amount of footwork a "live service model" would add to it. And I already don't like how smart phone games prey on my collector instinct to find all their meaningless content. It's a model I try to stay away from by playing games like "Dragon Age" instead.

Sigh ... I agree. I thought DA1 was by far the best game, and one reason for this is that the ultimate aim was far more understandable and immediate. You're told very early on that you and your comrades must defeat the arch-demon. Yes, there are plenty of distractions along the way, but there was none of this "endless-enemies-dropping-out-of-the-ceiling" like DA2 or "endless-pixel-hunting-to-find-a-hundred-crystals" like DA3. What aggravated me most was that if you wanted to start a subquests in DA3 for one of your companions, you couldn't do it without finding these hundred-crystals-to-create-a-key-to-an-ancient-tomb, or whatever.

So eventually I just gave up and returned to the main quest: stop some madman and his pet dragon.

I also thought that the demons in DA3 - not to mention the dragons - were far too difficult to beat. The demons continually killed me, no matter how I tried. The dragons just roared, stayed out of bow-range, and never landed. So I just gave up on killing any.

How did you do, Datadog?

[Datadog]

So eventually I just gave up and returned to the main quest: stop some madman and his pet dragon.

How did you do, Datadog?

That top one. What you did. Returned to the main quest and stopped the bad guy.

The shard hunting was far from fun. Once I spent twenty minutes trying to hop up a cliffside to grab one, I called quits on ever activating another ocular. I only get 2-3 hours a week to play this game and I had ZERO patience for collecting.

The same thing happened later with the sandbox maps. I finished most of the Hinterlands and the Mires. Finished some of the Empresse de Lion, the Emerald Graves, and the Ivory Coast. But once I saw the size of the Hissing Wastes, I made it to one camp and quit the sidequests.

But again, if I just do the main quest and hang out with my companions, it's a much better game. I'm even enjoying the DLC so far. I appreciate that the Deep Roads DLC is just a linear hallway that only takes a couple hours to finish.

I was listening to a podcast a couple weeks back discussing "Baldur's Gate 2", and they were drawing comparisons between it and how Bioware handled DA3. A point they had was that all the sidequests in BG2 have engaging stories attached to them with ongoing consequences. Meanwhile DA3 keeps telling you to collect herbs. So that's what I'm worried about with this "live service model". If they can't attach engaging stories to my herb collecting now, what happens when Bioware starts rushing out monthly content?

[Tawmis]

My dislike of "shooters" is the fact that I suck at them. I tried 1st-gen shooters like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom 1, and I continually died. So I gave up. I've tried a more recent shooter - Team Fortress 2 - and I continually died. So I gave up.

Do what I did in Halo multi-player (Halo 1). I used to jump in the jeep and just drive and run people over. Drive erratically so snipers couldn't hit me.

Sigh ... I agree. I thought DA1 was by far the best game

Without a doubt.

I also thought that the demons in DA3 - not to mention the dragons - were far too difficult to beat. The demons continually killed me, no matter how I tried. The dragons just roared, stayed out of bow-range, and never landed. So I just gave up on killing any.

Some of those demons were a pain... but the dragons, to me, were done how dragons SHOULD be done. They were all tough fights. But they're freaking dragons. They should be difficult.
There was a fight in Pillars of Eternity, where a woman summons up 2 dragons - and that fight took me about six tries to beat. And there's a dragon at the bottom of the castle that took me about four tries to beat.

[Datadog]

I loved the dragons in DA3. But after killing a couple, I genuinely felt bad about it. They weren't hurting anyone, and I love just watching them in action as they soar around the landscape. They're one of the game's nicest details.

[Tawmis]

I loved the dragons in DA3. But after killing a couple, I genuinely felt bad about it. They weren't hurting anyone, and I love just watching them in action as they soar around the landscape. They're one of the game's nicest details.

Agreed. The Dragons were magnificent in DA3.

[Rath Darkblade]

They were? I couldn't see the Dragons in DA3, because I was always ducking into shadows to avoid being killed by them.

I thought the Dragons were magnificent in Skyrim. Yes, they were hard to beat, but sometimes they were also (unintentionally) funny. I cracked up laughing to see a dragon flying backwards.

[Tawmis]

They were? I couldn't see the Dragons in DA3, because I was always ducking into shadows to avoid being killed by them.

And that's exactly what you should do when you see a Dragon unless you're over 100% confident you can beat it.

To side trek a little - when I DM a D&D game - and I drop a dragon down, who is there to tell the PCs what he needs them to do (whether they like it or not), and the PCs decide to attack and they're clearly under level... it's the only time as a DM I will not hold back and will not fudge (good) dice rolls. I will incinerate a party as quickly as I can, just to tell the players, "Don't #$%^ with a dragon, unless you have the gear/magic to do it."

[Rath Darkblade]

I hope your party isn't like the Knights of the Dinner Table. Bob, Dave and Brian hate getting railroaded like that, and will roll up new characters just to see if they can beat the dragon.

"My character is Knuckles Wallclimber IV! His daddy, Knuckles III, told him all he knew!"