Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

[MusicallyInspired]

The real hate for The Force Awakens didn't really start to grow until after The Last Jedi came out. There were detractors initially but not many. Almost everyone I talked to loved The Force Awakens. I liked it too. But most people changed their minds after TLJ was released.

And Rey is absolutely a Mary Sue. Though I don't agree that we could have known that from just The Force Awakens alone, even though she was pretty darn impressive with her abilities...but I let that slide for the first movie. But we're two movies in now out of three and she still doesn't have an arc to speak of. She's perfect at everything and learns it all without any training. And what training she does get from Luke is totally useless to her because she deems Luke's teaching fundamentally wrong and ends up changing his mind in the end. So, yeah. Mary Sue. I think she had a decent start in TFA, though. Just didn't lead anywhere.

Apparently she can also get angry while fighting and totally not turn to the dark side at all. In fact, the dark side doesn't seem to be an issue of temptation in the slightest in the sequels for anybody. Yeah, if you throw out all care of lore, consistency, and good storytelling and just plain shut your brain off you probably can enjoy the sequels at face value. I can't do that. I don't really have that ability. And that's not a slight against people who can, I consider it to be a detriment to myself. I just care too much.

Also, I don't hate JJ. I've enjoyed a lot of his work. The Mission Impossible movies were good, Star Trek '09 was good (though the movies got progressively non-Star Trek after that), TFA was...alright, Lost was good up until the end, but that's just something he started anyway and wasn't writing the whole thing as it went along at all. So those writers are to blame for Lost. I don't put nearly as much blame on JJ as a lot of other people do. The problem with Star Trek right now is Alex Kurtzman. The problem with Star Wars is Rian Johnson. If JJ had made all 3 sequels I don't think it would've ended up nearly as bad. But TLJ happened and now the lore is forever tainted no matter what JJ does with Ep9. You can't retcon it. It's committed now.

[Tawmis]

The real hate for The Force Awakens didn't really start to grow until after The Last Jedi came out. There were detractors initially but not many. Almost everyone I talked to loved The Force Awakens. I liked it too. But most people changed their minds after TLJ was released.

I saw a lot of posts on my Comic Relief Podcast feed about "pushing the woman's power agenda" after The Force Awakens.

Apparently she can also get angry while fighting and totally not turn to the dark side at all. In fact, the dark side doesn't seem to be an issue of temptation in the slightest in the sequels for anybody.

Well, Luke got angry too (seeing Ben die, then learning "Vader is his dad."
Sure, Luke wore black but in the movies, never turned Dark Side himself.

Also, I don't hate JJ. I've enjoyed a lot of his work.

He also did ALIAS, I believe, which I loved.
(But Jennifer Gardner may have had a lot to do with that).

[Tawmis]

When you think Facebook reads everything you do because this is suddenly shared by a friend...

[MusicallyInspired]

I saw a lot of posts on my Comic Relief Podcast feed about "pushing the woman's power agenda" after The Force Awakens.

I'm not denying there were haters. I'm saying there were more after TLJ.

Well, Luke got angry too (seeing Ben die, then learning "Vader is his dad."

He wasn't a full Jedi and didn't have full control of his emotions (sure, Rey doesn't have full control of her emotions either but this is portrayed as not being a problem in any way). Luke's vendetta was a total failure in ESB which was the whole point of showing him that vision on Dagobah that he ignored. The final battle in ROTJ shows that giving into anger is a very bad idea. As well as all of the prequels. This was consistent throughout all the movies and was just totally ignored in the sequels.

Sure, Luke wore black but in the movies, never turned Dark Side himself.

Not sure I understand the point there...but yeah he was starting to turn at multiple points, he just resisted....until that stupid flashback in TLJ. But even THAT showed that giving into anger was a bad idea. So it's completely inconsistent. Unless Rey is just a perfect character in every way.

He also did ALIAS, I believe, which I loved.
(But Jennifer Gardner may have had a lot to do with that).

Never watched Alias, but I did hear about it. I've also heard good things about Fringe which he also started, correct?

[Rath Darkblade]

*snerk* "What if we made a bunch of money?"

I never bothered with anything past the original trilogy. Sorry - I'm a dinosaur. I've read some of the discussion here about SW, and it looks like I haven't missed much - have I?

[MusicallyInspired]

No, you're probably safe, Rath. lol

[Tawmis]

Sure, Luke wore black but in the movies, never turned Dark Side himself.

Not sure I understand the point there...but yeah he was starting to turn at multiple points, he just resisted....until that stupid flashback in TLJ. But even THAT showed that giving into anger was a bad idea. So it's completely inconsistent. Unless Rey is just a perfect character in every way.

I was making a joke (because bad guys wear black, traditionally) - so we did see Luke with his dark outfit in Return.

*snerk* "What if we made a bunch of money?"
I never bothered with anything past the original trilogy. Sorry - I'm a dinosaur. I've read some of the discussion here about SW, and it looks like I haven't missed much - have I?

Depends on who you ask. MI would say:

No, you're probably safe, Rath. lol

I wouldn't say you've missed much, but you've missed some entertaining movies (just skip the Prequels, in my opinion). But Solo, Rogue One, The Force Awakens, and yes (even for me, though MI would disagree) The Last Jedi were all entertaining movies.

[MusicallyInspired]

To clarify, I meant you're probably safe in that you don't need to see any more. You've already seen the best Star Wars has to offer. I did like Rogue One, however, even though we didn't have time to really get to know the characters or care as much about them as we could. But that's hard to do in a single movie. The last 30 minutes were some of the best 30 minutes of Star Wars I'd ever seen, though.

[MusicallyInspired]

Here's a nice little timeline video of the series of events surrounding Tardigrades (the adventure game) and Star Trek Discovery and how things evolved from what STD was originally supposed to be, to the original showrunner being fired and replaced and all the game similarities starting to show up, as well as the following lawsuit.


CBS's lawyers increasing claims of frivolousness on Anas Abdin's part by claiming he was saying things he never did say and then changing their own story not once, but multiple times about what they were copying/not copying and what is and isn't public domain keeps them well in the realm of suspicion and guilt to me. They keep dragging their feet on the proceedings and pushing things off and trying to dismiss the whole case but it's not happening and the judge is ruling in favour of this lone indie game developer from Egypt against this billion-dollar corporation that owns Star Trek.

[Collector]

[MusicallyInspired]

Lol funny. But also not really fair. Star Wars is its own essence of brilliance. It's one of the best hero's journey stories ever told. Star Trek isn't the hero's journey. It's something else entirely. Apples and oranges. If only Star Wars was called something different without the word "Star" in it these two franchises would never ever be at odds with eachother. It's the only thing keeping them at odds.

[Tawmis]

If only Star TREK was called something different without the word "Star" in it these two franchises would never ever be at odds with eachother. It's the only thing keeping them at odds.

Fixed the typo.

[MusicallyInspired]

Ooooooo dem's fightin' words! Stirrin the pot. lol

But I was moreso hinting at the fact that Star Wars had a couple other possible running titles before settling on Star Wars and I think Star Trek was Star Trek from the beginning wasn't it?

[Rath Darkblade]

Collector.

MI, I think you're right re: Star Trek's name. You're also right that Star Wars had other names! In fact, Star Wars was a book before it was a film. The first film was released in May 1977, but in December 1976 - five months before the film - a novel came out, called "From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker". It was credited to Lucas, but actually ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster. (Sounds like George - always stealing other people's thunder).

The first "Expanded Universe" story appeared in Marvel Comics' Star Wars #7 in January 1978 (the first six issues being an adaptation of the film), followed by Foster's sequel novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye the following month. There were other books, to be sure, but they came after the films.

Tawm, I don't understand. Typo?

[Tawmis]

Ooooooo dem's fightin' words! Stirrin the pot. lol
But I was moreso hinting at the fact that Star Wars had a couple other possible running titles before settling on Star Wars and I think Star Trek was Star Trek from the beginning wasn't it?

Well I was kidding anyway, as I am sure Star Trek predates Star Wars.

Tawm, I don't understand. Typo?

It was a joke. Because he said STAR WARS should be renamed. I changed it to STAR TREK should be renamed. Implying Star Wars had the right to the name, and Star Trek is the one who needs to change their ways.