The D&D Corner (and other Pen & Paper - or virtual - RPGs!) <3

[Tawmis]

That's very harsh of Trystan. No time to eat? Can't you eat on the run, as it were?
I wonder why it's not possible for a Medusa to use different powers than "Turn to Stone". How about "Turn to Wood", or "Turn to Gold", or "Turn to Marble"? Imagine the hilarity when a party member is turned into a gold statue -- someone else in the party will want to sell them for the money, while everyone else will hold him down and yell "NO SELLING PARTY MEMBERS!"
Yeah, it's weird ... but it'll be funny.

The turn to gold would quickly be abused by turning animals and NPCs to gold.

I'm trying to write and describe a thieves' guild and a master thief, which is tricky. I've seen one or two pictures of a "boss thief", but nothing I've seen fills me with any confidence. What would he/she look like, wear, wield as a weapon? How would he/she conduct him/herself? I'm on the verge of introducing my master thief, so I think he/she would purr - because he/she's just caught someone else in the act.
Come to think of it, what would a thieves' guild look like? I know, I know - everyone's got their own visualisation. Whether it be Fagin's rickety apartment, an underground cave, or even living in an underground waterproofed sewer (handy for dumping enemies in the cistern, I guess) ... but what would it be like? For now, I've made it underground - with a fake "house" and guard to keep out intruders. Once inside the "house", there's a hidden trapdoor that can only be found if you know it's there. Open it and climb downwards, and the "real house" is revealed - a corridor with two doors. One of them is trapped, but the other is OK. Open that one, and it opens into a T-shaped room - like this:
The bottom of the "T" is where we come in. At the top of the "T" is a raised dais, with a simple wooden chair. Once the "audience" starts, that's where Thief Boss will sit. To his left and right will be rooms for people to sleep, eat, crap, and offer wares for sale (e.g. lockpicking tools, lockpicks, oil, rope, etc. etc. - for all your thieving needs!)
In the meantime, what do you think? What would a master thief look like, etc.? And does my thieves' guild sound good?
Thanks!

For the Master Thief, as you said - it definitely depends on what you want it to be. Because the Master Thief could be someone who grew up on the streets, made a living what they're doing; then began to employ others, also down on their luck to work for him as a united organization. And that organization grew to what it is. So he or she might look rough and somewhat homeless.

Or the Master Thief could be someone who works for the King and Queen of said area, knows the King's guards routes, and when expensive cargo is going; and uses that knowledge to attack specific caravans - and maybe buy off the guards to just "surrender" (to the witnesses to see) - and thus the Master Thief might be someone who dresses elegantly, and has a nice little place to operate out of.

So I'd say figure out the background for your Master Thief and let it go from there, how they might look.

Is it a male brute? Is it a female who was simply good at seduction? Or was it, to flip it - a tough female, who bossed people around? Or a male, good at seduction?

Do they have an education or not?

That type of stuff will fill itself out and give the Master Thief the development you're looking for.

[Rath Darkblade]

Hmm - what I thought about the Master Thief is this:

He (definitely a he) keeps his thieves firmly in line. His name is Kuri.

A street urchin named Enki - in reality, a perhaps level 3-4 rogue - leads my hero (Absalom, a fried-sausage salesman) to meet Kuri. Kuri and the King of Babylon work hand-in-hand, in fact, to reduce crime in the city. Kuri uses his skills (and the skills of his confederates) to spy on the king’s enemies, steal secrets, and return stolen property to its rightful owners. (Note to self: this is exactly how thieves’ guilds worked in the Ottoman Empire in the 16th-18th centuries, esp. Cairo and Baghdad.)

What can Absalom offer this formidable and skilled Master Thief? Invisibility. Absalom is not strong or skilled, but he is relatively anonymous. He can blend in without being noticed. Perhaps test him by taking him through the Temple precinct to see if he can find the Nasty Priest (who bothers everyone earlier, by spreading nasty rumours about how the sausages are poisoned!)

The fiction is that Absalom offers Enki a job as his ‘assistant’ at the sausage stall. But Kuri wants Absalom as a 'spy', and to be part of the guild. Absalom is hesitant - I'm a merchant, you are the Thieves’ Guild - but Kuri makes it clear: you have no choice. If you want to keep trading, you have to be part of the Guild.

The returns are generous: in return for a cut, his stand will be protected from thievery – including ‘un-certified’ thievery. Any thief in Babylon without a ‘certificate’ (a stamp on a stone, tied around neck with leather thongs) will be dealt with terminally. (This will be important, since his “unofficial” job requires him to be away from his stand).

So I have my set up all clear-cut, but I just can't picture Kuri as a person (other than the usual black suit, maybe an eyepatch ... a raven spy, maybe? Darn it, now I sound like I'm describing Odin). Any ideas?

[Rath Darkblade]

Any ideas, Tawm? Or ... I'm just trying to think of ways to describe my Master Thief. So ... perhaps there's a good illustration of a Master Thief (maybe on Deviant Art?) that I can perhaps use - i.e. translate into descriptive words - in order to describe my Master Thief?

Thanks ...

[Tawmis]

So I have my set up all clear-cut, but I just can't picture Kuri as a person (other than the usual black suit, maybe an eyepatch ... a raven spy, maybe? Darn it, now I sound like I'm describing Odin). Any ideas?
Any ideas, Tawm? Or ... I'm just trying to think of ways to describe my Master Thief. So ... perhaps there's a good illustration of a Master Thief (maybe on Deviant Art?) that I can perhaps use - i.e. translate into descriptive words - in order to describe my Master Thief?
Thanks ...

So if he works with the King, rather than a Raven - I'd say Hawk, if he's going to have a bird. If you're looking for something in that time period where messenger pigeons were being used for communication for long distances; a bird of prey might be something a Master Thief employs, in order to use the Hawk to find and kill messenger pigeons in order to recover messages that are being sent. Then, perhaps using his own messenger pigeons to send false/fake notes, as to not raise any suspicion with the enemies.

Since he works for the King; if that relationship is open (as in he's a part of the King's Court, but it's not common knowledge about the Thieves Guild), I would see him as clean cut, no scars (he might cherish his appearance the way a common thief cherishes gold and coin), but to him, it's his appearance and his silver tongue that is more valuable to him than any actual gold.

So whatever the "native" race is this takes place in, I would say he looks like the "perfect" version of that.

[Rath Darkblade]

A-ha! Clean-cut, no scars ... and a hawk. Hmm ...

How about drawing inspiration from one of these (or both):

Conan the Thief
Cat Burglar!

(Both from DeviantArt, of course!) I'm just thinking of what he would wear. A black "thief-suit" is very cliche. Perhaps shades of dark brown and dark green (to avoid being seen in the night). If he values his appearance, I don't need an eye-patch or a wooden leg, or anything like that. (ARR).

Hmm ... the setting is ancient Babylon, so race would be "human". (I would dearly love to do a cat burglar, where the burglar is a feline humanoid, but since it's ancient Babylon, that's probably impossible ... drat).

Perhaps he could have two costumes? One for guild work (dark brown/green), and one for guests (white tunic, blue trousers, hat with a feather in it)... how's that?

[Tawmis]

A-ha! Clean-cut, no scars ... and a hawk. Hmm ...
How about drawing inspiration from one of these (or both):
Conan the Thief
Cat Burglar!
(Both from DeviantArt, of course!) I'm just thinking of what he would wear. A black "thief-suit" is very cliche. Perhaps shades of dark brown and dark green (to avoid being seen in the night). If he values his appearance, I don't need an eye-patch or a wooden leg, or anything like that. (ARR).
Hmm ... the setting is ancient Babylon, so race would be "human". (I would dearly love to do a cat burglar, where the burglar is a feline humanoid, but since it's ancient Babylon, that's probably impossible ... drat).
Perhaps he could have two costumes? One for guild work (dark brown/green), and one for guests (white tunic, blue trousers, hat with a feather in it)... how's that?

Well, if it's "realistic" Babylon, sure - not much wiggle room in terms of magic. But if you throw in some light magic, you could.
As for a black suit being generic; if they're in with the king, I think during the day it'd be normal, but flamboyant coloring (he wants to draw attention to himself, maybe, to talk to people, learn secrets, etc). When he is out stealing, black is the logical choice as it blends with shadows. So there's a reason it's "generic."

[Rath Darkblade]

OK, maybe ... as long as the black "thief suit" is not "shiny black" (e.g. shiny buckles etc.) - they'd have a tendency to sparkle at inconvenient moments, especially when the moon was full. And definitely no rings or other jewellery, for the same reasons. Black is a sensible colour in the darkness of a cellar, or at midnight. At other times, though dark green, dark blue or dark grey are good too. Dark blue blends with the night sky; dark grey blends with chimneys; dark green blends with moss or other growth on top of roofs. Stay still until the guards have passed, then make your move. Little one-shot pistol crossbows, together with incapacitating (maybe even poisoned?) bolts, are your friends.

So he would take care to scuff up the suit and/or buckles - maybe rub some earth or mud into it, to disguise it. Think about it - if you're a rogue, and you're out stealing, then you're trying not to be noticed. The last thing you want is to shine, 'cos if you shine, you get noticed. Hey, what was that?

And then - as the guards say in "The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion" - it's all over, lawbreaker!

Hmm. There we go - the dialogue even writes itself! How does that sound?

[Tawmis]

How does that sound?

<Insert Thumbs Up Emojii Here>

[Tawmis]

You should check out Harmon's Quest... since you seem to enjoy the sillier side of D&D.

[Rath Darkblade]

And now your head is on fire! Yep, crits are always fun.

A couple of years ago, I wrote a coming-of-age story set in ancient Sardinia - but a good chunk of it happens in a dungeon, with our protagonist trying to become a barbarian hero (and not die). I got to do quite a few silly fantasy-type things, but they were closer to DAO than to D&D. For instance, an assassin who isn't evil, a bunch of undead that don't want to rip your face off, etc. I just took some fantasy tropes and subverted them, to see if I could construct a story out of that. It actually worked pretty well!

[Tawmis]

And now your head is on fire! Yep, crits are always fun.

A couple of years ago, I wrote a coming-of-age story set in ancient Sardinia - but a good chunk of it happens in a dungeon, with our protagonist trying to become a barbarian hero (and not die). I got to do quite a few silly fantasy-type things, but they were closer to DAO than to D&D. For instance, an assassin who isn't evil, a bunch of undead that don't want to rip your face off, etc. I just took some fantasy tropes and subverted them, to see if I could construct a story out of that. It actually worked pretty well!

That could also be D&D. I've been in plenty of sessions, where the Rogues played more the "Robinhood" style of Rogue (where they were good; and they had lockpicking skills and such; but their origins tied to stealing from rich, because the rich had slighted them or whatever).

And where in DAO (Dragon Age: Origins?) there undead that don't want to kill you?

[Rath Darkblade]

Uh, yes ... by DAO, I meant Dragon Age: Origins. My bad. *blush*

I just meant that in DAO, there are assassins that aren't Evil by definition. I thought that, in D&D, you have to be Evil to be an assassin?

[Tawmis]

Uh, yes ... by DAO, I meant Dragon Age: Origins. My bad. *blush*
I just meant that in DAO, there are assassins that aren't Evil by definition. I thought that, in D&D, you have to be Evil to be an assassin?

Not at all. In D&D - as long as you have a character background that explains it - you can be any alignment.

You could be a good person, who was trained as an assassin to kill orcs stealthfully, so that they'd be without a leader and break rank/fight among themselves, making the assault of the heroes against them more effective.

[Rath Darkblade]

Oh! *surprised* Then ... I must be thinking of D&D 3.5e (or the original NWN and NWN2, perhaps). I'm pretty sure that in those ones, you have to be Evil to be an Assassin, you have to be Lawful Good to be a Paladin ... and that was about it, I think, as far as alignments go.

How is it possible to be (for instance) an LE Paladin? Aren't they called Blackguards? Or am I that much out of date?

[Tawmis]

Oh! *surprised* Then ... I must be thinking of D&D 3.5e (or the original NWN and NWN2, perhaps). I'm pretty sure that in those ones, you have to be Evil to be an Assassin, you have to be Lawful Good to be a Paladin ... and that was about it, I think, as far as alignments go.
How is it possible to be (for instance) an LE Paladin? Aren't they called Blackguards? Or am I that much out of date?

Yeah, 3.0/3.5 still had some restrictions from 2e.
In 2e, Paladins had to be what became known as "Lawful Stupid."

Which is probably why they removed that restriction. I am not sure if it was removed officially in 4th Edition (which I have the Core book for, but absolutely hated that version) - but 5e, for sure has all of those alignment restrictions removed.

I, as a DM, never enforced those alignment restrictions - even back in 2e.

For example, if a god/goddess can "anoint" a Holy Warrior (Paladin) to represent them in battle, why wouldn't an evil or even neutral deity do the same?

So for me, the background has over superseded whatever the rules dictated in terms of alignment and class.