This is amazing.

[Tawmis]

Sorry it's in the format of images - but that's how it was shared to me.

Shed new light on the Lord of the Rings (especially the movies...)

[Rath Darkblade]

Yes, all right. He's right -- Boromir is a good person, he never gives up though he tries and fails, hooray.

But I'm going to take a step back and take exception with one thing in this essay: how dare you call Denethor "the Steward of F***wits". Does this guy know anything about Denethor? At all?

Peter made Denethor an abusive, cruel father, which was wrong. He never was abusive or cruel. Stern, yes. But not abusive.

Denethor was like Saruman, in that they both possessed palantir: Saruman possessed the Palantir of Orthanc, and Denethor possessed the Palantir of Minas Anor/Minas Tirith.

However, Sauron was able to prevent Saruman from using his Palantir freely, essentially linking the Orthanc-stone directly to the stone he possessed (Minas Ithil/Morgul). This was possible because Sauron was originally a Maia of superior power to Saruman, and furthermore because most of Saurman’s native power was withheld from him while incarnated as a wizard. However, even in this situation Sauron was unable to take complete control of Saruman’s will, and although he could summon the wizard to the stone and see Saruman’s thoughts through it, he could never control those thoughts, leaving Saruman still free to scheme.

Denethor did use the Palantir of Minas Anor (Tirith), and evidently did so extensively in the year leading up to the War of the Ring. He had an advantage over Saruman in this respect: unlike Saruman, the Steward of Gondor had a right to use the stones. The Palantiri required strong will to use even before Sauron took control of the Ithil stone. Without that will the Palantiri would merely show random images, if they showed anything at all. But the stones were crafted to recognize when the person using them had the authority to do so - either as their owner or one acting in the owner’s name. For such persons they were much less resistant. Denethor, as successor to the extinct royal line of Gondor, had that right; Sauron emphatically did not.

Thus Denethor was able to look at what he wanted… mostly. Gandalf supposed that Sauron chose not to directly contest the will of Denethor, as he had with Saruman and then with Aragorn. He instead put up a pretense of resistance, enough to weary and age Denethor but also to convince the Steward that he had defeated Sauron, and therefore that the visions could be trusted. He then used the Palantir to feed Denethor subtle misinformation - nothing false, since the Palantiri can only show things that exist, but guiding Denethor’s visions so that he only saw the worst in everything. Mordor’s strength was magnified; the strength of Gondor and its allies, lessened or erased completely.

These visions worked on Denethor’s sanity, guiding him towards a militaristic ruling style and a defensive mindset. Except for Faramir’s company, he pretty much let Mordor do as it liked, focusing instead on rebuilding and expanding fortifications that couldn’t be defended with his existing forces. He left Rohan to be raided by Saruman’s Uruk-hai, thinking that the wizard had already toppled King Theoden and rendered Gondor’s main ally unreliable.

Even if a person knows information is being presented in a false or misleading light or context, if that person keeps getting information from that source, they will be affected by it no matter what precautions they take. So it was with Denethor. He gradually came to believe that resistance was ultimately futile, and with Boromir dead and Faramir dying, he lost the last of his sanity. Gandalf counted this as a victory for Sauron, even though he was able to prevent the worst consequences.

Thus I believe that Denethor does not deserve our scorn, but rather our pity. Like Boromir, Denethor's love of his people and his country are absolute. Like Boromir, he fights long and hard against the Enemy. Like Boromir, he ultimately fails. His means of fighting are subtler than Boromir's, and Jackson's portrayal of him is much, much cruder; but is it not a better judgement of the man that it was his strength of will alone that held off Sauron's forces for as long as it did?

Denethor is a man of Westernesse, a Far-seer like Elrond. He withstood the will of Sauron better than anyone, including Aragorn. When Aragorn uses the Stone of Orthanc, he says just that brief struggle put more strain on him than the battle of Helm's Deep. In the book, Denethor is a supremely regal and intelligent man, and described as being as close in nobility to Aragorn as if they were brothers. Both of them would have fit in with the men of Numenor in the past when their race was mighty.

"Steward of F***wits", indeed!

[MusicallyInspired]

You can't blame someone for being ignorant of books they haven't read.

[Tawmis]

Well the person does say they read the books the same time they saw the movies.

However, that said - he does specify "every time I watch Lord of the Rings" and goes on to say "every time I watch it, it hits me harder" - which is why in most post, I specifically also mention "(especially the movies)" - because that's what this seemed to focus on.

[Rath Darkblade]

True. I just wish the movies had stuck closer to the books, that's all.

In the movies:

1. Denethor is remote, idiotic and abusive (which he's not);
2. Famarir is a short-sighted idiot (which he's not) and takes Frodo & Sam to Osgiliath and places them in unnecessary danger (why?);
3. Gimli is the comic relief (sigh...!)
4. We don't see the blooming romance between Faramir and Eowyn (which ties Rohan and Gondor together)
5. We don't see the Scouring of the Shire

... and so on, and so on. I understand that a movie is limited by time, space and money ... but ... why ruin three perfectly good characters?

Oh well. I'm sure other people beside me have pointed all this out, too.

[Tawmis]

True. I just wish the movies had stuck closer to the books, that's all.

I was fine with the changes they made in LOTOR; because overall, I felt it still told a good story.

Now, The Hobbit movie on the other hand... that I could rant about for pages.

[goatmeal]

I was fine with the changes they made in LOTOR; because overall, I felt it still told a good story.

Lords of the Old Republic ?...

[Tawmis]

I was fine with the changes they made in LOTOR; because overall, I felt it still told a good story.

Lords of the Old Republic ?...

You didn't see the Star Wars / Lord of the Rings cross over?

LotR.

[goatmeal]

[Rath Darkblade]

Yes, I was wondering about LOTOR too, but wasn't sure if I misinterpreted.

Lord of the Old Ring? Morgoth?

[Tawmis]

Yes, I was wondering about LOTOR too, but wasn't sure if I misinterpreted.

Lord of the Old Ring? Morgoth?

I am used to typing SWTOR, which is the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO which is the only MMO I currently play because it's free.

[Rath Darkblade]

No worries. Obviously LOTOR is not the same as SWTOR, or even KOTOR.

[MusicallyInspired]

If you like free MMOs, there's also LOTR Online and Star Trek Online that I've played in the past. I'm just not an MMO guy though.

[Tawmis]

If you like free MMOs, there's also LOTR Online and Star Trek Online that I've played in the past. I'm just not an MMO guy though.

I enjoy the LOTR one. It's actually pretty amazing. It's enormous in size. Which is good and bad. Because sometimes your quests are insanely far from where you are and their travel system needs some work.

[Rath Darkblade]

Oh, dear. LOTR Online sounds like The Elder Scrolls, but without fast travel ... am I right?

In TES, once you visit a place, you can always fast travel to it again. Is it the same in LOTR Online?