Space Quest IV Play Through.

[Rath Darkblade]

Oops! Temporal Paradox!

If Roger's son does rescue his dad and sends him back to SQ4, all the events in SQ4 are erased from time and have never happened.
But they must have happened, or else how would Roger's son rescue his dad?
In other words, the entire plot of SQ4 is a time-travelling paradox -- a gigantic prank, played on us by the Two Guys from Andromeda. @_@

In comparison, the plot of any other SQ game (especially SQ6) is entirely straightforward!

[Tawmis]

Oops! Temporal Paradox!
If Roger's son does rescue his dad and sends him back to SQ4, all the events in SQ4 are erased from time and have never happened.
But they must have happened, or else how would Roger's son rescue his dad?
In other words, the entire plot of SQ4 is a time-travelling paradox -- a gigantic prank, played on us by the Two Guys from Andromeda. @_@
In comparison, the plot of any other SQ game (especially SQ6) is entirely straightforward!

Honestly, only SQ4 is a mess (because of the whole time displacement thing). SQ1, 2, 3 (and 5 and 6), are all pretty straight forward.

[Rath Darkblade]

Honestly, only SQ4 is a mess (because of the whole time displacement thing). SQ1, 2, 3 (and 5 and 6), are all pretty straight forward.

Sure. Then again, how many science-fiction franchises haven't messed with time-travel (and became a mess in return)?

Star Trek used the term "predestination paradox" in a DS9 episode called "Trials and Tribble-ations".

The "Harry Potter" book series deals with a self-fulfilling prophecy: Lord Voldemort hears of a prophecy predicting his downfall. He seeks to quash the resistance before it's entrenched, so he attacks and kills Harry because he thinks that Harry is the central figure in the prophecy. He fails to kill the Harry, so he implants a fierce desire for justice and revenge in the prepubescent Harry. Ultimately, that serves as the cause Voldemort's death. It also happens in Greek mythology quite often (e.g. in the story of Oedipus).

The same basic plot occurs in the Bible several times, at least (e.g. in the Book of Daniel; in the story of Abraham (the founder of Judaism); and in the story of Herod's Massacre of the Innocents). This trope is Older Than Dirt.

And need I mention "Back to the Future", which messes about with time travel like no-one's business?

Now I wonder if we'll ever see Doc Brown, Abraham and Captain Kirk all getting together and really messing up time like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey ... stuff.
(Thanks, Doc!)

[goatmeal]

I think that's what would happen, right?
Because if Roger can't save Roger, Jr - then Roger is never sent back to SQ4 (end scene), thus trapping Roger in SQXII.
And if Roger never gets back to SQ4, he never meets his wife.
Thus he never has a son.
Thus he would never be rescued to begin with.

Duh. You're exactly right; I didn't think about THAT chain of events, AFTER the game -- Roger never meeting Beatrice, if he's still stuck in SQ12...

Although there are still Time Pods around (though Roger doesn't know the right codes), maybe he could guess/figure it out to get back to the end of SQ4? I assume there are other Time Ripper rebels around; maybe one of them could send him back to the end of SQ4?...

I know, I know: lots of "maybes" here. I guess that's why I flunked my Temporal Mechanics course at Starfleet.

[Tawmis]

I think that's what would happen, right?
Because if Roger can't save Roger, Jr - then Roger is never sent back to SQ4 (end scene), thus trapping Roger in SQXII.
And if Roger never gets back to SQ4, he never meets his wife.
Thus he never has a son.
Thus he would never be rescued to begin with.

Duh. You're exactly right; I didn't think about THAT chain of events, AFTER the game -- Roger never meeting Beatrice, if he's still stuck in SQ12...
Although there are still Time Pods around (though Roger doesn't know the right codes), maybe he could guess/figure it out to get back to the end of SQ4? I assume there are other Time Ripper rebels around; maybe one of them could send him back to the end of SQ4?...
I know, I know: lots of "maybes" here. I guess that's why I flunked my Temporal Mechanics course at Starfleet.

Yeah someone would need to send him/give him the code, because Roger himself doesn't ever go back to SQ4. It's his son who sends him back.

I always see it that Roger defeating Vohaul in SQXII creates a divergent timeline, so that when Roger is sent back to SQ4, there's no Sequel Police because in the future Vohaul never ruins Xenon, etc.

[goatmeal]

I always see it that Roger defeating Vohaul in SQXII creates a divergent timeline, so that when Roger is sent back to SQ4, there's no Sequel Police because in the future Vohaul never ruins Xenon, etc.

I would agree with you IF they stopped Vohaul before he sets his plans into motion -- the timeline is restored / that future never happened.

But, they stopped Vohaul AFTER the events of SQ12 have already occurred (destruction of Xenon, invention of time travel, the Sequel Police finding Roger, etc.)

Those things will occur again UNLESS Roger -- with his foreknowledge of the events to come -- manages to WARN the Xenonians (sp?) of pre-SQ12 NOT to upload the LSL diskette, THAT would erase the Vohaul-supercomputer SQ12 timeline...

HOWEVER, who's going to listen to a lowly space janitor ?

Besides, we would create a grandfather paradox in doing so:

(1) If Vohaul is uploaded to the Xenon Supercomputer, Vohaul's SQ12 will exist
(2) If Vohaul's SQ12 exists, Roger learns of Vohaul's plans
(3) If Roger learns of Vohaul's plans (and defeats him), Roger can warn the pre-SQ12 Xenonians ahead of time from the past
(4) If the pre-SQ12 Xenonians heed Roger's warning from the past, Vohaul is never uploaded
(5) If Vohaul is never uploaded, Vohaul's SQ12 never exists
(6) If Vohaul's SQ12 never exists, Roger never has the chance to learn Vohaul's plans
(7) If Roger never has the chance learn Vohaul's plans, Roger cannot warn the future pre-SQ12 Xenonians
(8) If the pre-SQ12 Xenonians are not warned, they have no reason NOT to upload Vohaul to the Xenon Supercomputer
(9) GOTO (1)

As Austin Powers said, "Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed" when thinking about his own time travel paradox problems.

(Can you tell I like time travel stories/plots/themes? Been into the genre since seeing BTTF back in 1985!)

[Tawmis]

See, I see it - Roger is sent to SQXII - and he defeats Vohaul.
And it's like throwing a rock into a placid lake. There's ripples that go backwards.
So when it reaches Space Quest IV... the future has been altered.

Me being silly showing ripples in water. :D

Roger is the SOLE person who has ANY memory of it. Because when his son is (eventually?) born, his son never goes back to save him - because he doesn't have to. Because Vohaul has already been defeated.

So Roger is the sole person with any memory of what he achieved.

Which is so fitting for Roger.

To not get the recognition he deserves!

I feel like this explains how he recognizes his (future?) wife; and why in Space Quest V he doesn't have any indication of great indication.

[Rath Darkblade]

goatmeal, you've made a very good argument for a grandfather paradox. Tawm, I like your picture of ripples in water.

The question, however, remains:

Roger's son sends him back to SQ4 ... but to what physical location?

That bar in Magmetheus, where SQ4 started? Then Roger would start blabbing again about how he defeated Sludge Vohaul (because he just did). Blab, blab, blab ... cue Sequel Police, and SQ4 starts again. Roger defeats Vohaul again, gets sent back to Magmetheus ... blah blah blah ... and SQ4 starts again.

Roger is stuck in a Time Loop! So he can't be sent back to Magmetheus.

Where would he go? And how does he end up as a flunking cadet in Starfleet, of all things? I'd have thought that, being a janitor, he starts again as a janitor. Right?

[Tawmis]

goatmeal, you've made a very good argument for a grandfather paradox. Tawm, I like your picture of ripples in water.
The question, however, remains:
Roger's son sends him back to SQ4 ... but to what physical location?
That bar in Magmetheus, where SQ4 started? Then Roger would start blabbing again about how he defeated Sludge Vohaul (because he just did). Blab, blab, blab ... cue Sequel Police, and SQ4 starts again. Roger defeats Vohaul again, gets sent back to Magmetheus ... blah blah blah ... and SQ4 starts again.
Roger is stuck in a Time Loop! So he can't be sent back to Magmetheus.
Where would he go? And how does he end up as a flunking cadet in Starfleet, of all things? I'd have thought that, being a janitor, he starts again as a janitor. Right?

That's why I think my theory works.

He'd go back to Magmetheus, probably seconds after he stepped INTO the portal, he'd suddenly step out.

No one would even notice Roger was missing (which is so fitting for Roger), and even if he told anyone - no one would believe him, because he's only been gone for 1 second.

So it's somehow tragically fitting, that Roger alone, knows of the incredible deed he did; and that he'd be the only one who knows how he saved Xenon. Again; because the backwards ripple - Vohaul is defeated. And that whole thing undone.

So when Roger's son is born, Roger's son never has to go back in time, because the timeline has been altered.

[goatmeal]

========================================
The Condensed Chronological Events of Space Quest 4
========================================
(For game events in sequential order, start at SQ12.1)
========================================
Each .XX value is a sequential moment in time as one moves DOWN the list,
occurring AFTER the previous event listed above it
(Past = Top of the List // Future = Bottom of the List)
========================================

SQ1.17 - Roger arrives in Ulence Flats from SQ10.3
SQ1.18 - Roger takes a book of matches from the bar
SQ1.19 - Roger returns to SQ12.8


SQ4.1 - Roger arrives at a bar on Magmetheus
SQ4.2 - Sequel Police from SQ12.5 arrive to capture Roger
SQ4.3 - Roger Jr. and the Time Rippers from SQ12 rescue Roger
SQ4.4 - Roger Jr. sends Roger to SQ12.6
.....
SQ4.99 - Roger returns from the future for good (from SQ12.13)


SQ5.1–SQ5.99 - The events of Space Quest 5 occur


SQ6.1–SQ6.99 - The events of Space Quest 6 occur


SQ? - Roger Jr. is born


SQ10.1 - Roger meets the Latex Babes (again?) on the planet Estros
SQ10.2 - Roger goes to the Galaxy Galleria mall with the Latex babes
SQ10.3 - Roger steals another Time Pod and heads to SQ1.17
.....
SQ10.4 - Roger returns to SQ10 from SQ12.10
SQ10.5 - Roger buys the compatible Pocket Pal adapter for use with the Xenon Supercomputer
SQ10.6 - Roger uses the Time Pod to head to SQ12.11


SQ12.1 - Xenon scientists upload the LSL diskette containing Vohaul into the Xenon Supercomputer
SQ12.2 - Vohaul decimates Xenon
SQ12.3 - Vohaul invents Time Travel and creates the Sequel Police
SQ12.4 - Vohaul locates Roger at the beginning of SQ4 (see SQ4.1) in a bar on Magmetheus
SQ12.5 - Vohaul sends the Sequel Police to SQ4.2 to capture Roger
.....
SQ12.6 - Roger arrives in SQ12 through a Time Rip from SQ4.4
SQ12.7 - Roger steals a Time Pod and heads to SQ10.1
.....
SQ12.8 - Roger returns to SQ12 from SQ1.19
SQ12.9 - Roger needs a Pocket Pal adapter to access the Xenon Supercomputer security robots
SQ12.10 - Roger uses the Time Pod to travel to SQ10.4
.....
SQ12.11 - Roger returns to SQ12 from SQ10.6
SQ12.12 - Roger defeats Vohaul, rescues Roger Jr., and saves the Xenon of SQ12
SQ12.13 - Roger Jr. sends Roger back to the end of SQ4 (SQ4.99 listed above)


And there you go. Everything happens in a logical, sequential order.

• There are no grandfather paradoxes and there are no pre-destination/causal loops, because Roger (a.) never meets himself or crosses paths with a past or future version of himself, and (b.) never creates an interference event in the past or future which locks himself into an unavoidable course of action.

• There is no erasing of the future or any timeline/timelines in this sequence of events, UNLESS Roger tries to warn the future Xenon people about not uploading the LSL diskette (as described in a previous post above), of which there is no evidence that he does so in any future game.

Therefore, the events of Space Quest 12 can/will still occur in the far-flung future (Vohaul's ruination of Xenon, Roger Jr. rescuing his father at the start of SQ4, and Roger defeating Vohaul in the end), but only Roger has any knowledge of the future (SQ12) while in SQ5 and SQ6, since he's the only one who's been there...

...Oh, and we -- the successful players of the SQ4 game -- know it, too.

[Rath Darkblade]

Aha! So now it makes sense! Thanks, goatmeal.

[goatmeal]

Aha! So now it makes sense! Thanks, goatmeal.

You're welcome, Rath!

And I totally agree with Tawmis: Endgame Roger was likely returned to SQ4 AFTER he jumped into the time rip during the game's intro sequence, if only to prevent any potential paradoxes.

That way, there are not two Rogers running around at the same time. And if there were, unless Endgame Roger interferes with the Intro Roger sequence, Intro Roger will be gone to SQ12 in a few minutes to begin his grand adventure, which would leave EndGame Roger back at the bar in Magmetheus.

...Kind of like Future Marty watching Past Marty drive the DeLorean to 1955 from a distance at the end of BTTF.

[Rath Darkblade]

Interesting you should bring up BTTF, goatmeal. Have you tried the game? Here's the trailer. I own it, played it, and liked it.

Unfortunately it's not on Steam any more. What a shame.

[goatmeal]

Interesting you should bring up BTTF, goatmeal. Have you tried the game? Here's the trailer. I own it, played it, and liked it.

Unfortunately it's not on Steam any more. What a shame.

I bought it (got the DVD version), finally started playing it a few years ago, but got stuck: I couldn't figure out how to get past a mafioso thug who's behind the counter at a food pantry (IIRC), and never bothered going back to it. I knew WHAT I needed to do; I just couldn't figure out HOW to do it... very frustrating.

I did like what I played up to that point... Maybe I'll try it again someday.

(Or read a walkthrough to see how to get past that point -- and discover what I kept doing wrong that wasn't working.)

[Tawmis]

Interesting you should bring up BTTF, goatmeal. Have you tried the game? Here's the trailer. I own it, played it, and liked it.
Unfortunately it's not on Steam any more. What a shame.

I bought it (got the DVD version), finally started playing it a few years ago, but got stuck: I couldn't figure out how to get past a mafioso thug who's behind the counter at a food pantry (IIRC), and never bothered going back to it. I knew WHAT I needed to do; I just couldn't figure out HOW to do it... very frustrating.
I did like what I played up to that point... Maybe I'll try it again someday.
(Or read a walkthrough to see how to get past that point -- and discover what I kept doing wrong that wasn't working.)

Perhaps you were never doing anything wrong, but instead in a time loop paradox?