Manhunter: New York Playthrough.

[notbobsmith]

I'm skimming the video. One thing I always do with AGI games is play them with Tandy 3-voice sound. Just like when I played them back in the day.

[Tawmis]

I'm skimming the video. One thing I always do with AGI games is play them with Tandy 3-voice sound. Just like when I played them back in the day.

You will notice, even on the play through - I did fast forward/speed up the arcade sequence games and mazes.

I should have the commentary version up Friday Night or Saturday.

[Rath Darkblade]

Ah. Then since I don't enjoy post-apoc sci-fi, I'm not sure I should play it. *shrug* Oh well.

[Tawmis]

Ah. Then since I don't enjoy post-apoc sci-fi, I'm not sure I should play it. *shrug* Oh well.

Yeah - I am not really a fan of the post apocalyptic world (except for the "Age of Apocalypse" comics ironically) - but because this was a SIERRA game back in the day, I'd purchased it when it came out.

So I have a lot of memories of playing this game (and SO MANY) other Sierra games with my (then) best friend, Shawn - and just getting carne asada burritos and soda and just staying up all night trying to power through this game (and so many other Sierra games).

So while I don't care too much for the "theme", or even how... BASIC?... this is compared to other Sierra games (visually)... and the ENDLESS amounts of puzzles and "trial and error" type things (Central Park)... this is nostalgia for me, to a time where life was much, much, much easier.

If I were to buy a game like this TODAY - I'd probably promptly return it.

[notbobsmith]

So while I don't care too much for the "theme", or even how... BASIC?... this is compared to other Sierra games (visually)... and the ENDLESS amounts of puzzles and "trial and error" type things (Central Park)... this is nostalgia for me, to a time where life was much, much, much easier.

I recall enjoying the game. I didn't mind the arcade sequences. As for the rest... I kind of assumed that was par for the course for Sierra games at the time. I remember the frustration of the KQ2 bridge having a fixed number of times you could cross it. Or the poisonous thorn path to Dracula's castle. Before I learned there was an antidote (which is nearly impossible to find) it was: take a few steps, save, take a few steps, restore if killed.

In theory, the Central Park thing should not have been trial and error. Tracking the target with the MAD provided clues. On the map, you might see the targets move though a blue bush and an orange one. When you arrive at central park, you look for the two bushes on the screen and that's where you go. The targets even pause at each location and you look for the next clue. This was much too subtle for me and I only learned about it after reading a guide.

[Tawmis]

In theory, the Central Park thing should not have been trial and error. Tracking the target with the MAD provided clues. On the map, you might see the targets move though a blue bush and an orange one. When you arrive at central park, you look for the two bushes on the screen and that's where you go. The targets even pause at each location and you look for the next clue. This was much too subtle for me and I only learned about it after reading a guide.

Yes, it pauses (and even waits for you to ENTER), so yes - it's giving a clue - but to me, when it's on the MAD tracker, there's just blotches everywhere. It's difficult to me (maybe I need to go back and look again) to tell.

And to add to the difficulty - there "potential" paths, if the beeps are to be believed as you arrow around are millimeters apart. So even if - in the case of the two colored bushes - there's like three that are right next to each other there.

[Rath Darkblade]

OK. I don't think I even saw any Sierra games before a former schoolmate showed me LSL1 (EGA) in 1991. (That's how backward Australia is when it comes to games, unfortunately). Up until then, the only adventure game I played was Maniac Mansion. I wasn't much of a gamer back then: the only other games I had access to were Sokoban, a weird CGA 3-D version of Tetris, a really weird skeet shooter that came with DOS (apparently), and ... that's about the lot, really. *shrug*

There might have been game stores in those days, but since I didn't have a disposable income in the early 90s (still being in high school), they weren't much of a concern. I started buying games when I could afford them. (By then, it was the mid-to-late 90s, so I missed out on original Sierra boxes etc. Mind you, I remember getting and playing QfG5 when it came out, installing it and playing it 'til 6 am on Sunday morning, then sleeping in 'til 1 pm.

P.S. I only did that once, and only when I was young and stupid. It really messed up my sleep patterns for a while.

P.S.S. I'm not sure why, but gaming in Australia seems to have been much harder than in America, especially in the 90s and 2000s. There were fewer game stores (even fewer now!), and if you wanted to buy a new game, you had to be prepared to pay up to $100 for it. Things are a little more reasonable now, but big-name games (e.g. WoW or Starcraft 2) were still up to $70-80 when new. What is/was it like for you?) *curious*

[Tawmis]

P.S.S. I'm not sure why, but gaming in Australia seems to have been much harder than in America, especially in the 90s and 2000s. There were fewer game stores (even fewer now!), and if you wanted to buy a new game, you had to be prepared to pay up to $100 for it. Things are a little more reasonable now, but big-name games (e.g. WoW or Starcraft 2) were still up to $70-80 when new. What is/was it like for you?) *curious*

It's interesting - because for me (in San Diego) there were not only gaming stores - but so many COMPUTER centric stores (such as EGGHEAD Software, now defunct) and records stores (such as WAREHOUSE, now defunct) that also sold computer games. So when we (Shawn and I) heard a new Sierra game was out - we'd bike to WAREHOUSE Records, see if it was there. (Maybe buy a record or cassette while we're there). If it wasn't there, we'd take the much longer bike ride (like 2 hours on bicycle) to Chula Vista to Egghead Software and get it there.

KQ3 - $34.97 (http://sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 472#p74472) - October 1988
KQ1 - Gold Box - $44.99 (http://sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 445#p74445) - December 1990
KQ6 -$49.99 - (http://sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 500#p74500)- December 1992

It's crazy to think - in 1990/1992 - the cost of a game is what a game costs TODAY on average.

Goatmeal in one of the threads mention: https://westegg.com/inflation/

So -

What cost $34.97 in 1988 would cost $77.58 in 2020.

What cost $44.99 in 1990 would cost $90.35 in 2020.

What cost $49.99 in 1992 would cost $93.54 in 2020.

[Tawmis]

Finally, Manhunter: New York Commentary Playthrough -

[Rath Darkblade]

Sheesh. Arcade sequences, throwing knives between fingers, sewer mazes ... this game looks like a pain in the proverbial.

How is it that when the manhunter goes to the fair (once he gets out of the sewer), that no-one says how much he stinks?

Oh dear - the guys throwing knives and/or shooting at you? How the heck can you even tell whether to jump or duck? That speed is insane.

In case it's not clear: I hate arcade sequences. Hate 'em with a passion.

I think I can see what you meant now when you said:

If I were to buy a game like this TODAY - I'd probably promptly return it.

Sorry, but I don't think I can finish watching this. The speed of this game (and the constant moving, and the bad colours, and all that... squick) is giving me a headache.

[Tawmis]

Sheesh. Arcade sequences, throwing knives between fingers, sewer mazes ... this game looks like a pain in the proverbial.

It truly is. I mean, I like scifi - but post apocalyptic isn't really too much my thing (except, oddly enough, in movies)... and I guess some games, if it's done right (more of a horror theme/tension)... but like books, or comics, never read post Apocalyptic stuff.

How is it that when the manhunter goes to the fair (once he gets out of the sewer), that no-one says how much he stinks?

They all stink maybe? I mean in four days we never see him wash his robes.

Oh dear - the guys throwing knives and/or shooting at you? How the heck can you even tell whether to jump or duck? That speed is insane.

Keep in mind, in the commentary it's speed up x4.
In the non commentary it's speed up x2 (all of the arcade/mazes - the rest of the game is normal speed). And when I do commentary videos, I speed it up x2 through the WHOLE video.
So not even in the non commentary version is it the proper speed for any arcade/maze sequence (it'd be half the speed you'd be seeing).
I sped it up in non commentary because... well, it's an arcade sequence. Nothing thrilling about it.

Sorry, but I don't think I can finish watching this. The speed of this game (and the constant moving, and the bad colours, and all that... squick) is giving me a headache.

Pfft, never say sorry. I'm honored if you watched any of it.

But yes, I am not sure (still, to this day) why they went with the design they did with the Manhunter series. I believe this could have been achieved in the AGI/SCI (which ever was relevant at the time) game engine that Sierra normally used. There's a lot of random coloring everywhere, and I get to show how messy the world is. But it's visually distracting. The interface, I also mention in the commentary, is horrible. The fact you can't view your inventory items is also annoying.

It's just a weird... "game engine" they used for these two games.

That said, I do wish they did the third game, which the end of the second one eludes to.

[notbobsmith]

Just finished the video. Just a few comments.

2:20 You say that the game isn't AGI, but it is. It is a very unique use of the AGI engine, with no text and an almost point-and-click interface.

9:11 You pronounce the dolls as "cue pie". I always pronounced them as "cue pee" which I thought was correct.

10:00 You actually had the correct 3 dolls but then restored!

11:50 I'm guessing you remembered the name "Phil Cook" because you shouldn't know his last name at this point in the game.

12:50 I love how fast you fast forward through the alley sequence.

14:12 This, again, is a very subtle clue, but your target is the only one wearing a brown robe.

16:38 This is what I was mentioning on the MAD map. The two targets first go between light blue and green bushes. On the first screen at Central Park there is a blue and green bush on the right which is the correct path. It is a really subtle clue, but if you follow closely what they do, it will at least narrow down the correct path. Like I said, I had to brute force it the first time and only learned of this reading a walkthrough much later.

So why does Central Park have a mine field? It was the site of the "First Annual Human Survival Games". This was mentioned in the game's documentation. For all of the game's flaws, I love the dark humor.

18:00 Well I was right about the crowbar! And I guessed before seeing the video.

19:58 You mention that Phil is killing Manhunters, but that isn't what is happening. First of all, everyone has to wear robes. This was an Orb edict from the manual. It's not explained why. So the people Phil is killing are members of a resistance movement. This actually makes it odd that they would send Phil (who has the job "Public Servant") on the same case as you. It makes it redundant. The people being "processed" at the hospital are being used for food. Phil's computer says that the next "harvest" will be in Brooklyn, so it sounds like they just pull people off of the streets. The "transferred to Chicago" does imply that they are going to kill you, but it was never clear to me why.

20:27 To navigate the museum, you need a hand drawn map and follow the path of the target exactly.

27:10 I also never understood the logic of the 364 picture.

28:00 I love how after several tries dodging Phil's knife, you just end up sucker punching him at the beginning.

42:00 Yeah, there's no way to figure out which button does what. It is just trial and error to figure out which one closes the ramp.

44:37 The final maze is again trial and error. At least you have a third person perspective to navigate and you don't die. But wait until Manhunter 2!

Two things to remember with Manhunter 2 (no spoilers):
There are two places where you must die and continue the game without restoring in order to complete Day 1.
Don't forget to change the arcade sequences to "Easy".

[Tawmis]

Just finished the video. Just a few comments.

Thank ye!

2:20 You say that the game isn't AGI, but it is. It is a very unique use of the AGI engine, with no text and an almost point-and-click interface.

Ah, I should have been more clear. The "normal" AGI, is what I'd meant.

9:11 You pronounce the dolls as "cue pie". I always pronounced them as "cue pee" which I thought was correct.

I pronounced it KI-WI didn't I?

10:00 You actually had the correct 3 dolls but then restored!

I do that a few times. I do that later in the ship trying to take off.

11:50 I'm guessing you remembered the name "Phil Cook" because you shouldn't know his last name at this point in the game.

Yes. This was a muscle memory.
Because I vividly recall playing this with my friend Shawn - and he and I laughing that it looks like the murdered guy wrote "Cool"
So it's always stuck with me it was "Cook"

12:50 I love how fast you fast forward through the alley sequence.

Yeah, it's roughly increased x2 - maybe more, I can't recall what speed it does it at when I tell it to speed it up in the edits.

14:12 This, again, is a very subtle clue, but your target is the only one wearing a brown robe.

See, with this game... it's hard to tell with colors. Because they... splotch... colors everywhere. So a grey robe could be brown, but it's in the shadows or something.
Which is why I think I clicked the grey one first.

16:38 This is what I was mentioning on the MAD map. The two targets first go between light blue and green bushes. On the first screen at Central Park there is a blue and green bush on the right which is the correct path. It is a really subtle clue, but if you follow closely what they do, it will at least narrow down the correct path. Like I said, I had to brute force it the first time and only learned of this reading a walkthrough much later.

Yeah - you can see it - but the map is vague - but offers enough of a clue, I guess. It's just... with how they do art in this game, it's... visually difficult to tell what is what. (For me, anyway)

So why does Central Park have a mine field? It was the site of the "First Annual Human Survival Games". This was mentioned in the game's documentation. For all of the game's flaws, I love the dark humor.

Yeah, my manual is in the garage in a bin, with the game.
So I had made scans of all my games, so each time I loaded the game, I'd have to go to the Manhunter Scans and open the images to look up the "copy protection" - but I've not read the manual since I first got the game, probably.

18:00 Well I was right about the crowbar! And I guessed before seeing the video.

Something I've enjoyed doing in the recent commentaries is finding a reason to bring up the folks here on SHP or SHP itself.

19:58 You mention that Phil is killing Manhunters, but that isn't what is happening. First of all, everyone has to wear robes. This was an Orb edict from the manual. It's not explained why. So the people Phil is killing are members of a resistance movement. This actually makes it odd that they would send Phil (who has the job "Public Servant") on the same case as you. It makes it redundant. The people being "processed" at the hospital are being used for food. Phil's computer says that the next "harvest" will be in Brooklyn, so it sounds like they just pull people off of the streets. The "transferred to Chicago" does imply that they are going to kill you, but it was never clear to me why.

I mention the resistance - and that's who Phil is killing.
Although, I suppose if I'd read the manual and everyone wearing robes - would explain at the end of why the hell do all the Manhunters run up to you?

20:27 To navigate the museum, you need a hand drawn map and follow the path of the target exactly.

Yeah - I'd mentioned this. But with the arcade, there's a literal grid on the arcade that matches the sewers exactly.
There's no grid on the MAD tracker as the target goes through the museum so even a perspective map (drawn) to turn left, right, etc - was insanely difficult.

27:10 I also never understood the logic of the 364 picture.

Yeah, I never understood where the 4 comes from?
I see a 3, and then another 3, so I did "3" then "6"... and I forgot the last number I did, originally off hand.
But when I died, and the Murries appear and say something about "4" - I was like, "Ok, let's try 3, 6, 4" - and sure enough.
So I don't understand that one. That was pure luck based off the clue.

28:00 I love how after several tries dodging Phil's knife, you just end up sucker punching him at the beginning.

Hah! I couldn't believe that worked out.

42:00 Yeah, there's no way to figure out which button does what. It is just trial and error to figure out which one closes the ramp.

Which is a shame. They should have at least had the image in the manual, for what does what (another copy protection measure). Or allow you to see it somewhere.

Two things to remember with Manhunter 2 (no spoilers):
There are two places where you must die and continue the game without restoring in order to complete Day 1.
Don't forget to change the arcade sequences to "Easy".

Oh. Do not even tell me you can change the arcade sequence in MH2? I don't think I ever knew that. Maybe I did. When I load it up I will see if it looks familiar.

I am more familiar with MHNY than MHSF, because both my friend Shawn and I weren't super please with MHNY; so when MHSF came out, I bought it - but played that one solo.

So no "fond memories" of hanging out with my friend playing the game, that will trigger a lot of muscle memory.

[notbobsmith]

27:10 I also never understood the logic of the 364 picture.

Yeah, I never understood where the 4 comes from?
I see a 3, and then another 3, so I did "3" then "6"... and I forgot the last number I did, originally off hand.
But when I died, and the Murries appear and say something about "4" - I was like, "Ok, let's try 3, 6, 4" - and sure enough.
So I don't understand that one. That was pure luck based off the clue.

I think I remember now. I just realized it's 2-6-4. So you have the two 3s. One with an arrow pointing left (so the number before) and one with the arrow pointing right (the number after) and you perform the addition in between. So 2-6-4. It is a bit abstract.

[notbobsmith]

Another thing I forgot to mention. You did keep mentioning how useful the crowbar is. It's apparently useful enough that it defeats Orb security (a shuttered window) at Grand Central Station... twice.