If there'd been another Conquest game...

[Tawmis]

... what do you think it could have been about?

... what are some things you would have liked to have seen?

Maybe story wise?
Character wise?
Voice actors?

[notbobsmith]

There are lots of legends throughout history to draw from, though the two Conquest games stuck with an English theme. I can't think of anything else as well known in England. Outside of England: How about Beowulf? Cu Chulainn? Maybe a Viking theme?

[Tawmis]

There are lots of legends throughout history to draw from, though the two Conquest games stuck with an English theme. I can't think of anything else as well known in England. Outside of England: How about Beowulf? Cu Chulainn? Maybe a Viking theme?

I'd love a Viking theme; Conquest of Ragnar.

But I fear that... the Viking life style is something Sierra would not have wanted to explore in their game.

[Rath Darkblade]

There are lots of legends throughout history to draw from, though the two Conquest games stuck with an English theme. I can't think of anything else as well known in England. Outside of England: How about Beowulf? Cu Chulainn? Maybe a Viking theme?

Beowulf is definitely English. It's an Old English epic poem, albeit in the tradition of Germanic (or possibly Swedish?) heroic legend.

Cú Chulainn, also known as the Hound of Ulster, is obviously Irish. Fair enough.

I'd love a Viking theme; Conquest of Ragnar.

But I fear that... the Viking lifestyle is something Sierra would not have wanted to explore in their game.

Hmm, I'm not surprised. The conquests of Ragnar Lothbrok have quite a few parts (e.g. the Blood Eagle carried out on King Aella of Mercia, or Ragnar being thrown into a pit of snakes) that would probably make Ken Williams say "Nuh-uh, I'm not selling that to kids."

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I was thinking of, perhaps, the Sawney Bean legend -- although it does have that X-rated part where the Bean clan kills and actually eats travellers. Definitely not for kids.

A few magistrates at the time couldn't believe that humans would commit cannibalism, and said that werewolves must've done it. There we go! Here's the fantasy angle.

If we're lowering the age a bit, then how about the legends of Hereward the Wake? He predates Robin Hood by a couple of centuries. He's not as well-known outside of Britain, but he is definitely a real person. Aspects of the stories about him (i.e. being a dispossessed nobleman who turns to crime) were probably mutated into, or influenced, the later Robin Hood legends.

Although Hereward is a real person, some of the stories about him are either exaggerations or outright fictions. One of the stories -- i.e. Hereward returns home from exile to find that Normans have taken over his house, are having a drunken feast, and laughing about cowardly Englishmen ... so Hereward fights them all and kills sixteen of them -- is straight out of Beowulf. It's also reminiscent of the even older story of Odysseus, returning home from the siege of Troy and killing his wife's suitors.

Anyway, they're good stories to tell around the fire on a frosty night. But I don't know if they'd translate into a game. What do you think?

[DeadPoolX]

Hmm, I'm not surprised. The conquests of Ragnar Lothbrok have quite a few parts (e.g. the Blood Eagle carried out on King Aella of Mercia, or Ragnar being thrown into a pit of snakes) that would probably make Ken Williams say "Nuh-uh, I'm not selling that to kids."

With the exception of a few specific titles that were aimed at children (e.g. Mixed-Up Mother Goose, Mixed-Up Fairy Tales, Pepper's Adventures in Time, and the two EcoQuest games), the bulk of Sierra Online's games weren't made for kids in the first place, so I don't think the potential violence or bloodshed would've bothered Ken much, if at all.

[Rath Darkblade]

True, but ... geeze. The Blood Eagle is particularly gruesome. Any game (not just Sierra) that actually showed this would be in hot water, and probably be banned.

Sierra might get away with showing the aftermath - they've done fairly grisly things in the first Gabriel Knight - but not the act itself.
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Anyway, since we're discussing Norse mythology ... maybe we could use some comic relief:

Thor gets married

Thor gets married (again)

My favourite Thor myth

You'll never see these on the big screen. Too bad. They're real parts of Norse mythology.

[DeadPoolX]

True, but ... geeze. The Blood Eagle is particularly gruesome. Any game (not just Sierra) that actually showed this would be in hot water, and probably be banned.

I think you massively underestimate the sort of gore and grotesque horrors that've been displayed in detail in games.

[Tawmis]

I was also thinking the whole raping and pillaging...

[Rath Darkblade]

True, but ... geeze. The Blood Eagle is particularly gruesome. Any game (not just Sierra) that actually showed this would be in hot water, and probably be banned.

I think you massively underestimate the sort of gore and grotesque horrors that've been displayed in detail in games.

I don't play horror games (I just don't enjoy them), so I probably haven't seen that kind of thing. Of course, I've seen the occasional horror bits in RPGs and so on (e.g. the Brood Mother in "Dragon Age: Origins" and so on), but I'm sure horror games have much worse.

What kind of thing do you have in mind, DPX? Just wondering. I doubt any horror game would show any of the most gruesome executions (e.g. hanging, drawing and quartering, or the Blood Eagle) - not in detail, anyway).

I still remember the fuss that the press created about the infamous "Hot Coffee" mod. I can just imagine the fuss they'd make if a game would show medieval torture in detail.

I was also thinking the whole raping and pillaging...

There's that, sure. (I always liked a scene from a story about an anonymous "training camp" in Viking times, where the trainees are told to pillage the houses and 'ravish' the women - not the other way around. "Olaf, get it into your head already. It's getting embarrassing.")

[Tawmis]

(sighs at "mastery of the universe"... wrong franchise)

Er, sorry? All right, I haven't played Mortal Kombat since the first one. IIRC, back then, the objective was "mastery of the universe".

Masters of the Universe.

Mortal Kombat wasn't about master of the universe; it was about heroes saving the Earth realm from being "enveloped" I guess you could say by the Outworld.

Now, I will say that the first MK story is this - and it's odd that Goro was undefeated for 500 years in a row, and one more time would allow Shao Kahn to take over Earth Realm.

I am guessing that those 500 years were spent fighting other realms, and the next one was going to be Earth for victory 501, had Goro won.

[Rath Darkblade]

Ah, geez. Well, er ... is Kelowna any better, perhaps? I realise I'm grasping at straws; you're the expert. I only thought of Kelowna because a Canadian pen-pal of mine is from there.

When it comes to major cities in Canada, the first one I think of is Ottawa (naturally). Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal are next, but then there's Winnipeg, Calgary, Saskatoon, Quebec City (which probably annoys Montreal by having such a pedestrian name)... Er. *looks at the map* Oh my. Nunavut and the NWT look very sparsely when it comes to cities, and probably population.

I'm not all that well-informed about Canada, but I have read Pierre Berton's book "The Last Spike" (about the cross-country railroad) and his book on the War of 1812. I'm also familiar with the Plains of Abraham and what made them important, the Viking settlement at Newfoundland, and so on. Yes, it's not current, but it was interesting to learn.

I've also learned that from time to time, Quebec (at least the northern part thereof) threatens to secede. They're not serious, I presume? Or just a stunt to get Ottawa to grant them political concessions?

[Rath Darkblade]

Oh, right! That's what we were discussing before we got side-tracked, wasn't it?

Initially, I thought (seeing as Tawm had brought up Japanese culture), that perhaps the Forty-Seven Ronin would make a good game. But the huge number of participants would probably confuse anyone who doesn't know the legend inside and out.

In that case, how about a game based on the medieval Japanese warrior, Minamoto no Yorimitsu? He is usually accompanied by his four legendary retainers, known as the Shitenno (Four Heavenly Kings). Small number of characters == no confusion. But ... most of the legends about him involve a lot of sword-fighting, which might not be suitable for a Sierra adventure game (unless the sword-fighting element was drastically simplified).

Then I thought of, perhaps, a game based on the legends of Judas Maccabbeus - but if a game like that was made, it would inevitably lead to all the usual anti-Semites using it as a political football. Sigh. Thinking up ideas that can't be shot down is hard.

Hold on a moment! We haven't considered Egyptian or Greek mythology yet. What about taking a Greek/Egyptian myth, but -- and this is the important bit -- taking away all the supernatural help that said hero/heroine had? Then they have to achieve everything on their own merit, rather than getting Hades or Apollo or whoever to save the day.

Let's say we take the myth of Perseus and Medusa. Perseus starts in Greece. Medusa is located in Aethiopia (modern Sudan, just south of Egypt; follow the Nile south, you can't miss it). So ... in the myth, Perseus gets the sandals of the god Hermes, which allow him to fly over the Mediterranean sea. Not content with that, Athena gives him a Polished Mirror-Shield, so that Medusa won't be able to paralyze him, and a Helmet of Invisibility, so Medusa won't see him.

So much for myth. How would Perseus do this in real life? He'd have to find where Medusa is, obviously, and get there. He can't count on any supernatural help, so how can he beat Medusa? And once he does it, how does he get back? And what about the whole Andromeda angle?

Since Perseus Loses a Level, maybe Medusa does too. The original story has Poseidon curse her to turn her into a monster. So maybe he does, but she finds hobbies to pass the time (and gets rid of anyone who comes close, just not by paralyzing them).

Anyway, I wrote an novella (about 65,000 words) exploring the story. (Yes, shameless plug). =P I've tried finding a publisher, but it's not as easy as writing the damn thing ... (and I got it critiqued and edited, too). *shrug*

[Tawmis]

I was just thinking how cool it might be to explore the Conquests of Lacelot. Yes, we see a bit of him in Conquest of Camelot. But Lancelot has such a long history as well, that I feel like seeing the story from his side, and the things he'd done, would have potentially made a cool game too. And could even, at points, reference to events from Conquest of Camelot.

[Rath Darkblade]

Oh, but we have seen them. Remember? They're right here.

(I tried to include the video here, but the forum won't play it. Any idea what's going on? This is now the 2nd time in two days that the forum won't let me play YouTube videos).

[Tawmis]

Oh, but we have seen them. Remember? They're right here.
(I tried to include the video here, but the forum won't play it. Any idea what's going on? This is now the 2nd time in two days that the forum won't let me play YouTube videos).

I keep saying the Youtube addin for the forum isn't in place.

And that scene is one of my favorites.

"She's got.... huge tracks of land."