The D&D Corner (and other Pen & Paper - or virtual - RPGs!) <3

[Rath Darkblade]

Just for fun ...

DM: You see a terrifying monster, nearly devoid of fur and towering above you on two massive legs, it carries ---
Cat: I roll to Seduce!
DM: Damn it, we've been over this! You can't just Seduce everyth---
Cat: Nat. 20!!!
DM: Sigh. All right, you've convinced the human to put down your food bowl.

and ...

[Tawmis]

All right. Nat Crits (and Nat Fails) are always interesting.
"You shoot the Angel with your bow ... and succeed!"
"Yay!"
"That's 50 damage!"
"Yay!"
"But the Angel is now aware of your hostility and calls down a host of 1,000 Celestials to battle you. Roll for initiative."
"Welp, I'm dead."

(What? Why can't I sometimes be the evil one?)

Oh rest assured, party members have made similar foolish mistakes.

[Tawmis]

So every year, in October, I do an event in all of my D&D games called "The Hollowing" which celebrates Halloween.
One of the effects of the Hollowing is that the twin moons eclipse one another, and the veil between life and death is at its weakest.
This is the time demons come into the world in search of souls to snare before they're born into children.
Children without souls are called "The Hollow."
One of the main effects for the game is that this odd veil issue causes magic to go wild.
Each year I come up with a list of 100 things (well, around 90 things, because some say, "Your spell goes off fine")...
It's usually humorous stuff ("You grow a third leg", "You turn into a dog and feel the need to 'dominate' a fellow party member's leg", etc.) - but sometimes, even funny things can cause things to go bad.

This was from this year's game I call "The Discovery"....

missing.mp3

When the monks kept missing during their attacks, they called for a need to reschedule the game if this is how the dice rolls were gonna go! :D

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sahuaginsuck.mp3

There are monsters called Sahuagin (evil fish people) and I've used them a lot because while they have a low difficulty - they have an insane ability that if someone doesn't have full hit points, they can blood frenzy giving them advantage (essentially roll twice and take the higher roll of each attack). Which is bad enough... but they also have multi-attack, meaning they get to attack twice per round.

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thehollowing_cantholditin.mp3

This druid, who caught the sails of the ship on fire last session, due to a critical fail, used Create/Destroy Water to make it rain - and then lost all control of her bowel movements as a side effect of the Hollowing...

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dancingsahuagin.mp3

Because the Sahuagin were forced to dance, through magic, the crew had advantage to attack them... the player rolling on behalf of the crew literally rolled a 1 and a 2...

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obeymycommad.mp3

The banter between Sindri (Wizard) and Rettniss (Druid) has been on going for many, many, many, many sessions... Rettniss even made a Voodoo doll of Sindri who absorbed some of Sindri's essence, which made Sindri (the character, not the person - upset! The person who plays Sindri loves it)... so there was time for some vengeance...

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basicallywehavedonenothing.mp3

Twilight, the player who controls her had stepped away for a moment and came back, Sindri explains plainly the situation...

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thatwayitsnotmyfault.mp3

I told Sindri to roll for how long the effect would be so I couldn't be blamed if two fours were rolled...

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counterspellwasone.mp3

Sindri got turned into a living scarecrow who couldn't talk, thus not cast any VERBAL specific spells...

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[Rath Darkblade]

Eleanor Morton does it again. (If you haven't seen her yet, she does a lot of these "Craig" videos - e.g. "Craig the Guide to Loch Ness Can't Be Bothered". She also does literary and historical characters, like Queen Elizabeth I, Edgar Allan Poe, JRR Tolkien etc. reading their fan mail and hate mail. Lots of fun)

[Tawmis]

Her dice thing was funny.

[Rath Darkblade]

A question about D&D money ... (I hope it's OK to ask!)

So, I know that the D&D Player's Manual tells you about GPs, SPs and CPs (Gold Pieces, Silver Pieces and Copper Pieces), and something much rarer called -- er, "Electrum Pieces", I believe? (I hope that's right).

So my question is: when you create a D&D adventure, do you have different names for your coins in every "realm" (or country) that your players visit, or is it all GPs / SPs etc.?

I think it would add a lot to the roleplaying experience. I mean, did any of us ever say to our friends "Lend me a silver coin, willya?" or "Here's a couple of coppers for the parking meter"? No, we'd say "Lend me a coupla bucks, OK?" or "Here's a coupla quarters for the meter."

Besides, when I was travelling overseas, it was shekels in Israel, drachmas in Greece, Pounds and pennies in England, euros in Italy ... and, obviously, dollars and cents here in Australia. So, maybe in D&D it could be similar?

I don't mean that every little village should have its own coins, but maybe ... just picture it:

- The Kingdom of Insert-Name-Here loves their king! All Hail His Majesty Thaler III! So, you could have silver coins called "thalers" and copper coins called "scudi" (with plural being "scuda", i.e. "That'll be 5 scuda, sir!")
- Meanwhile the neighbouring Republic of Insert-Name-Over-There hates Insert-Name-Here, and especially they hate Thaler's guts. But they love their Republican leader, Mr. Dollar, and his son, Mr. Cent. (Obviously I'm being silly). So, they could have gold coins called "dollars" and silver coins called "cents".

All right, obviously those two are really stoopid. But why not make up your own coins? Suppose a region is ruled over by a benevolent, kindly golden dragon. The people love the dragon, so when they stamp their coins, they do this:

- a dragon's tooth on a golden coin (which they call "Fang");
- a dragon's claw on a silver coin (which they call "Claw");
- a dragon breathing fire on a copper coin (which they call "Flame").

So, 12 Flames make a Claw, and 20 Claws make a Fang. Just watch your poor players get confused when they go to a tavern and order some ale, and the waitress says "We don't serve ale here! But we have some regional specialties. How about Dragon's Breath? That's honey-sweetened beer with just a touch of chilly pepper. That'll be two Flames!"

I think it'll be fun. What do you reckon?

[Tawmis]

A question about D&D money ... (I hope it's OK to ask!)

LOL! Why wouldn't it be?

So, I know that the D&D Player's Manual tells you about GPs, SPs and CPs (Gold Pieces, Silver Pieces and Copper Pieces), and something much rarer called -- er, "Electrum Pieces", I believe? (I hope that's right).

Depends on the version. They've added Platinum also.
Here's a break down:
http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/currency

So my question is: when you create a D&D adventure, do you have different names for your coins in every "realm" (or country) that your players visit, or is it all GPs / SPs etc.?
I think it would add a lot to the roleplaying experience. I mean, did any of us ever say to our friends "Lend me a silver coin, willya?" or "Here's a couple of coppers for the parking meter"? No, we'd say "Lend me a coupla bucks, OK?" or "Here's a coupla quarters for the meter."
Besides, when I was travelling overseas, it was shekels in Israel, drachmas in Greece, Pounds and pennies in England, euros in Italy ... and, obviously, dollars and cents here in Australia. So, maybe in D&D it could be similar?
I don't mean that every little village should have its own coins, but maybe ... just picture it:

For the ease of sanity, I typically explain that each "Kingdom" brands their coin.
So you could have 10 gold pieces from the Kingdom of Elaroas, 5 gold pieces from the Kingdom of Tazaron, for a total of 15 gold pieces. But the notation of the various kingdoms is just for flavor of that moment. When players add it to their character sheet, it just falls under gold. Especially with the remote games, because the character sheet only has slots for Gold, Silver, Copper, etc.
It does have an area for notes, but that's usually for character notes ("We explored a cave and found an odd rune at the foot of a statue...")

There are some settings that are different. But they just shift things around.
Like in the Dragonlance setting, the primary coin is Steel, not Gold.
But there are still gold coins. Just steel, over all, is more valuable.

[notbobsmith]

There are some settings that are different. But they just shift things around.
Like in the Dragonlance setting, the primary coin is Steel, not Gold.
But there are still gold coins. Just steel, over all, is more valuable.

I know it's a fantasy setting and the rules of our world don't necessarily apply, but why would steel be more valuable than gold? For us, iron is plentiful and rusts and gold is rare and one of the "noble metals". Even if the rarity of gold and iron were reversed, what are weapons and armor made out of in this world?

[Tawmis]

There are some settings that are different. But they just shift things around.
Like in the Dragonlance setting, the primary coin is Steel, not Gold.
But there are still gold coins. Just steel, over all, is more valuable.

I know it's a fantasy setting and the rules of our world don't necessarily apply, but why would steel be more valuable than gold? For us, iron is plentiful and rusts and gold is rare and one of the "noble metals". Even if the rarity of gold and iron were reversed, what are weapons and armor made out of in this world?

Has to do with what happened in the novels, for which the Dragonlance setting is based off of.
In short, soft metals became "trinkets" and didn't have much value.

https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Coin

While gold and silver coins were the norm during the Age of Might, during the Cataclysm soft metals were deemed to be not as valuable due to their rather limited usage, and were instead deemed to be ornamental at best. It was at this time that the steel system was implemented.

The value of coins is in the following order: platinum, steel, iron/bronze, silver, gold and finally copper.

Info on the Cataclysm: https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Cataclysm

[Rath Darkblade]

For the ease of sanity, I typically explain that each "Kingdom" brands their coin.
So you could have 10 gold pieces from the Kingdom of Elaroas, 5 gold pieces from the Kingdom of Tazaron, for a total of 15 gold pieces. But the notation of the various kingdoms is just for flavor of that moment. When players add it to their character sheet, it just falls under gold. Especially with the remote games, because the character sheet only has slots for Gold, Silver, Copper, etc.
It does have an area for notes, but that's usually for character notes ("We explored a cave and found an odd rune at the foot of a statue...")

There are some settings that are different. But they just shift things around.
Like in the Dragonlance setting, the primary coin is Steel, not Gold.
But there are still gold coins. Just steel, over all, is more valuable.

I understand the sanity considerations, obviously. The PCs travel from kingdom to kingdom, so they need one currency that's the same across them all. (This is where GPs etc. come in).

But if you had a campaign that was set in just one kingdom, would it make sense for them to have their own coins and their own names for the coins (like "Fang" for a GP, "Claw" for an SP etc.)?

After all, nobody wakes up in the morning, orders a coffee, and says "Here's a GP, that oughtta cover it".

There are some settings that are different. But they just shift things around.
Like in the Dragonlance setting, the primary coin is Steel, not Gold.
But there are still gold coins. Just steel, over all, is more valuable.

I know it's a fantasy setting and the rules of our world don't necessarily apply, but why would steel be more valuable than gold? For us, iron is plentiful and rusts and gold is rare and one of the "noble metals". Even if the rarity of gold and iron were reversed, what are weapons and armor made out of in this world?

Has to do with what happened in the novels, for which the Dragonlance setting is based off of.
In short, soft metals became "trinkets" and didn't have much value.

https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Coin

While gold and silver coins were the norm during the Age of Might, during the Cataclysm soft metals were deemed to be not as valuable due to their rather limited usage, and were instead deemed to be ornamental at best. It was at this time that the steel system was implemented.

The value of coins is in the following order: platinum, steel, iron/bronze, silver, gold and finally copper.

Info on the Cataclysm: https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Cataclysm

Hmm ... to quote from the wikipedia article on Steelmaking:

To make steel, the iron needs to be separated from the oxygen and a tiny amount of carbon needs to be added. Both are accomplished by melting the iron ore at a very high temperature (1,700 degrees Celsius or over 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit) in the presence of oxygen (from the air) and a type of coal called coke.

(In ancient times, it was impossible to make steel from iron ore, since no blacksmith could achieve a temperature that high; but they could and did make steel from pig iron, using the Crucible Process).

Coming back to the D&D world, I presume that no blacksmith in D&D can produce high enough temperatures to use anything but the Crucible Process. But that is still hot enough to produce some very high-quality steel - indeed, in the real world it was hot enough to produce Wootz steel and Damascus steel, both exceptionally strong.

So in the D&D world, I wouldn't be surprised if people valued steel above gold. After all, in the Late Middle Ages and early Renaissance, well-made suits of steel plate armour (as opposed to chainmail) were very expensive - but easily could save your life. They were also made to fit the individual who wanted them, a bit like today's made-to-measure suits. Chainmail, by comparison, was a bit like buying clothes off-the-rack -- it was flexible, one-size-fits-all, cheap, and much easier to make and care for than steel plate armour -- but by the late Middle Ages (or 15th century), it wasn't much use in a battle situation. (Still better than nothing, though).

[Tawmis]

<snip>

So. Tell me. In Skyrim, do you do things that are not physically possible? Are there things like monsters and dragons and magic?

I imagine, one of those three is true. At the very least.

Because it's fantasy.

Not reality.

Saying "This is how they did it in Ancient Greece" or whatever, and trying to compare it to fantasy settings is like apples and oranges.

I mean - read about the Cataclysm in Dragonlance. Which I linked.

An effing MOUNTAIN sized meteorite hit a city. And sunk it to the ocean.

If that were real world - that would be a world ending event if it were reality (https://www.space.com/asteroid-apocalyp ... ty-survive).

So who cares how things worked in the real world when you're reading a fantasy setting.

[notbobsmith]

So in the D&D world, I wouldn't be surprised if people valued steel above gold. After all, in the Late Middle Ages and early Renaissance, well-made suits of steel plate armour (as opposed to chainmail) were very expensive - but easily could save your life. They were also made to fit the individual who wanted them, a bit like today's made-to-measure suits. Chainmail, by comparison, was a bit like buying clothes off-the-rack -- it was flexible, one-size-fits-all, cheap, and much easier to make and care for than steel plate armour -- but by the late Middle Ages (or 15th century), it wasn't much use in a battle situation. (Still better than nothing, though).

And in the real world, you would pay with that suit of armor with... gold. I'm just wondering if weapons and armor in D&D are made of steel, then you would have to pay for that armor with an equal weight of steel currency plus extra to cover the cost of labor. That just seems really odd to me.

[Tawmis]

And in the real world, you would pay with that suit of armor with... gold. I'm just wondering if weapons and armor in D&D are made of steel, then you would have to pay for that armor with an equal weight of steel currency plus extra to cover the cost of labor. That just seems really odd to me.

Well, in Dragonlance, the only ones who really wear armor are the Knights.
Unlike your standard D&D campaign where orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, trolls, and the list goes on and on and on, always being threats all the time at every corner of the world no matter what small town you run to...

Dragonlance isn't like that. Most people aren't out there "adventuring."

So if you're a "Fighter" wearing armor, you're a very, very, very, very rare breed.

So walking into a tavern in standard D&D you'd find a metric ton of other common adventurers. In Dragonlance, you're going to find typically just people trying to get a meal and a drink - and if you walk in wearing armor, you're going to be looked at oddly - simply because adventurers are not the norm in Dragonlance.

Where, yes, D&D can (and should!) have an over arching story; it's typically broken down based on your levels. Levels 1-4, you're usually just a clean up crew of some kind (giant rats, goblins, kobolds, maybe orcs). 5-8 you have moved up in the world, and more established heroes (so often times, a new story line emerges, with tougher things to take on). 9 to 12, even more things (and usually a new storyline). 13 to 20, you're working on an epic adventure (usually a new story).

The key is tying these together, and making them feel connected, no matter how loosely, so it feels like a coherent story.

When you play in Dragonlance, the story often takes focus on an approaching war, with the side of Takisis (the evil Dragon Queen) and her armies amassing. And that's the story from 1 to 20. You start off learning about clues, then get involved with a city in defending it, get their trust, and move up through doing rescue missions, scouting missions, etc., and concluding in fighting the Dragon Queen or something along those lines.

So in regards to steel, and paying for steel for steel - as noted - Platinum is still the HIGHEST valued coin.

The value of coins is in the following order: platinum, steel, iron/bronze, silver, gold and finally copper.

So for armor, you'd be paying platinum for the steel.

[Rath Darkblade]

<snip>

So. Tell me. In Skyrim, do you do things that are not physically possible? Are there things like monsters and dragons and magic?

I imagine, one of those three is true. At the very least.

Because it's fantasy.

...

So who cares how things worked in the real world when you're reading a fantasy setting.

Yes, I'm not arguing that fantasy and reality are different. Fantasy has monsters and dragons and magic. Reality ... doesn't.

All the same, I for one think that studying real-world history and technology is fascinating, and can easily (with a few tweaks) be applied to D&D.

Having said that, what is fantasy? To me, fantasy lore draws on both history and mythology. In D&D, things like armour, weapons, inns and taverns, and other aspects of urban and rural life are drawn from history; things like monsters and magic and wizards come from mythology.

I'm not talking about made-up wizards or rangers like Raistlin or Drizzt Du'Orden, but wizards tossing lightning bolts are a clear reference to Zeus, and wizards who can read thoughts are a reference to Odin. Dragons, of course, are present in almost every mythology. Duergar, dwarfs, trolls and kraken (to name just four) come from Norse myth, etc. Elves, goblins, orcs and all kind of fey creatures are present in Germanic, English and Irish myths. (I won't even mention Halflings).

Sure, there are lots of made-up monsters too, like Beholders and Mind Flayers. WOTC has had years to work on all kinds of fantastic creatures. Still, a lot of the more common ones have their basis in some kind of human myth.
==========
There's also another connection between fantasy and reality. Where did all the monsters come from? Where did myth come from? I reckon that an insanely long time ago, when people were just inventing the idea of religion and communal living and all that basic stuff, they looked up at the sky and mountains, and down at the rivers and valleys, and invented lots of gods and lots of little creatures to try and explain their world.

Where did lightning and thunder come from? It came from Old Man Sky, because he was angry. Why do landslides happen? Because Old Man Mountain is angry. Why do rivers flow and flowers grow? Because Old Mother Earth is happy. Really, really basic religion. But having invented gods, humans started to invent little creatures to warn their kids: don't go near the river, or Jenny Greenteeth will get you. Don't go to the forest, or the Wicked Wolf will get you. Don't go to the mountain, or Old Man Troll will squash you with a rock.

So for thousands of years, people believed in gods and little creatures who could "get you" with their super-abilities (or "magic"). But "magic" is just another word for "something I can't understand". When someone created the first fire, no-one understood it, so it was magic. When the first train ran, it made lots of people scared - a thing that runs without horses! Nowadays, not many people understand (for instance) String Theory, which makes them nervous. (They don't call it "magic" anymore, of course. They call it "weird science". But the effect is the same).

I guess what I'm saying is that there's a lot of parallels and similarities between fantasy and reality. Sure, you won't meet a dragon or a wizard on the street, but the more you dig into reality, the more similarities you'll find with fantasy.

And in the real world, you would pay with that suit of armor with... gold. I'm just wondering if weapons and armor in D&D are made of steel, then you would have to pay for that armor with an equal weight of steel currency plus extra to cover the cost of labor. That just seems really odd to me.

Well, in Dragonlance, the only ones who really wear armor are the Knights.
Unlike your standard D&D campaign where orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, trolls, and the list goes on and on and on, always being threats all the time at every corner of the world no matter what small town you run to...

Dragonlance isn't like that. Most people aren't out there "adventuring."

So if you're a "Fighter" wearing armor, you're a very, very, very, very rare breed.

OK, interesting. How common (or rare) are Knights in Dragonlance?

I imagine the world of Dragonlance is a big place. How can Knights protect everybody?

If not many people have armour or weapons, how can they protect themselves?

So walking into a tavern in standard D&D you'd find a metric ton of other common adventurers. In Dragonlance, you're going to find typically just people trying to get a meal and a drink - and if you walk in wearing armor, you're going to be looked at oddly - simply because adventurers are not the norm in Dragonlance.

Is this just plate armour? Or is it armour of any kind (e.g. chain armour, brigandine, leather etc.)?

[Tawmis]

OK, interesting. How common (or rare) are Knights in Dragonlance?
I imagine the world of Dragonlance is a big place. How can Knights protect everybody?
If not many people have armour or weapons, how can they protect themselves?
Is this just plate armour? Or is it armour of any kind (e.g. chain armour, brigandine, leather etc.)?

The Knights of Solamnia were specific to one region and were deployed from there, during times of need.
You would have local "guards" with armor and weapons, but "guards" in Dragonlance aren't like guards in standard D&D where you'd see 50 guards just standing on a gate. Guards were few in number, because peace was typically the norm in Dragonlance (except for when the Dragon Queen decides she wants to make her entrance, lol). Large cities had militias (so they had weapons and armor), but because peace is (generally) what reigns over the Dragonlance setting, militia were not patrolling much. As for armor, just like D&D, you had all the flavors. The Knights, however, had ceremonial armor and swords (and sometimes shield) that marked them as Knights of Solamnia - and to lose your sword was a huge offense.

But this is what makes Dragonlance, as a series of books so good - is that "adventurers" are not the norm - so our heroes are every day people who get pulled into a mess.

And the Dragonlance D&D campaign works the same way - you're not just another adventurer - you're a normal person who gets pulled into a mess and now have to do what's right (or wrong, depending on what side you want to play for).