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NO. Telltale does NOT understand adventures. They understand that using a bunch of fans' hopes and dreams to bringing the adventure genre back to a successful state to gain success while merely delivering a series of mundane gaming experiences that, granted, have excellent stories but whose gameplay and puzzle design is the BORINGEST EVER CONCEIVED will allow them to do what they wish and have a huge disillusioned fanbase to back them up. I've come to the sad realization after BTTF that Telltale aren't interested in creating challenging puzzles, but merely a completely story-driven game where the puzzles are an after-thought. That's not an adventure. You need BOTH. The Telltale style isn't much better to me than the Adventure Company-esque Myst clones.

They keep lapping up any beloved franchises that'll give them some success and screwing their fans who believed in them from the beginning that their games would improve. But they haven't improved. They've gotten worse.

If King's Quest turns out to be the disaster I see it becoming, I'm done with Telltale.

Don't go, DPX. The only great interesting conversations come from difference in opinions. I think we're all adult enough here to not let things flame up.

DeadPoolX wrote:TellTale understands Adventures.

A certain type of adventure. I think part of the problem is disconnect on the meaning of style. There are other more important aspect to the style of a game than just graphics. Writing, humor, game play, type of puzzles and interfaces are just a few of the different aspects of style that games can have. The total package is the style of the game. No one wants it to be VGA or low rez FMV games.

The designers need not be the original. After all Roberta was not the main designer of all the KQ games. However, whoever is picked for the designer needs to understand the Sierra style.

Dave Grossman wrote:while I was working at LucasArts, I played some of the Sierra titles, and others, you know, checking out the competition. I found those games interesting and challenging, but ultimately very frustrating. They tended to punish curiosity with death, and they had all these puzzles where the solutions were amusing but often arbitrary and more or less impossible to figure out. It was like no one was thinking about what it would actually be like to PLAY the game.

DeadPoolX wrote:That in of itself puts anything they do with the KQ series miles ahead of KQ8, MCL and BOB.

At least that.

DeadPoolX wrote: You're judging TellTale's attempt (which we haven't even seen yet, so it seems premature to discount it) based on previous games. That's as bad as judging Sierra based on their very early titles. Besides, not all reboots are bad. Given TellTale's solid Adventure game history, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

Well, what else would you judge a new game on, if not the companies previous games? Would you Codemasters, the makers of LSL:BOB, said they were going to make another LSL game... Or, having heard of the utter failure that was BOB, would you scoff at the idea of them doing another LSL game? After all, are you not also judging Codemasters by their previous games? If someone isn't happy with how a company makes a game, it's as simple as that really.

DeadPoolX wrote: KQ8, MCL and BOB weren't made by people who understand Adventure games. That's the key difference. Before someone says anything about Roberta Williams on KQ8, we all know she had very little control over it. That wasn't her creation anymore, so it became the child of those who didn't understand or care about Adventures. The same is true of MCL and BOB.

You know, the whole Roberta didn't have much of a hand or control over KQ8... I don't know if I will ever QUITE believe that... or see that as an excuse, considering how poorly it flopped. I am pretty sure I read, directly from her in some interview, that the gaming world had changed, and KQ8 was an attempt to follow that changing world within games. So it seems like she knew what she was doing. It flopped and suddenly her hands are off it and she didn't have any control over it.

DeadPoolX wrote: TellTale understands Adventures. That in of itself puts anything they do with the KQ series miles ahead of KQ8, MCL and BOB.

Entirely possible. And I am not discounting that. But I am merely going off their latest few games that I have seen (and admittedly, not played) - but I have not played because they're episodic (or whatever you want to call it). I never even got the 2nd TSL, which I heard just came out, because I can't be bothered to remember it.

But that said, looking at their Back to the Future, I think they'd make a great Willy Beamish remake; because the animation seemed like a natural upgrade to Willy Beamish type of game. King's Quest, I am not so certain. Yet.

DeadPoolX wrote: As for BioWare.. they're not an Adventure company. They make RPGs, which while related to Adventures, aren't the same thing. The only Sierra title BioWare would really be qualified to do would be a remake of the QFG series.

My point here was, a trusted gaming company telling me they're going to remake a classic game. I'd even be leery of them doing a remake of QFG, as your better example cites.

My thoughts on this whole idea of a new vision of King's Quest is based on the fact that, first of all, Telltale's design philosophy (as expressed by Dave Grossman himself) is counter-intuitive to a King's Quest design philosophy. A recipe for disaster on both sides of the fan fence.

Second of all, I wouldn't be happy if something new was churned out with the name "King's Quest" splashed on it for nostalgia's sake. It might as well be something completely different in that case. I don't just want people to say the name "King's Quest" again. I'd rather see King's Quest revived the way it was; the way we originally loved them. I don't love "King's Quest" I love the King's Quest games. If it's nothing like it was it was never truly revived to begin with. I want more of those same experiences I had with the original games in new titles. I don't want a completely different "modern" experience with the same name.

Wow. Okay, I'm kinda with DPX on this. After reading the thread title, I thought I'd hop in and find lots of excited posts I could contribute to, but instead... yeah. My sky-rocketed enthusiasm about a KQ reboot just got buzz-killed in a heartbeat by the negativity in here. Practically no one seems happy that a talented group of successful adventure game designers (who have so far stayed true to every franchise they've worked on) are now - for the first time ever - reviving a Sierra franchise.

*shakes it off*

*blinks*

*shakes it off again*

Gotta get some mojo going on. Gotta pump myself up. Gotta forget the last two pages of posts and never read them again.

I AM EXCITED!

Okay, so when they mention a reboot, I'm wondering if we're going to revisit maybe the first two King's Quest games and actually add a story into them. Maybe take the original characters Graham once interacted with and give them more interesting roles like they did in AGDI's KQ2 remake. New puzzles will be added, of course, but it would be nice if they worked in some old puzzles with new twists. I always felt like the magical treasures were severely underused in the series, so maybe they could expand on those.

As for graphics, I'm hoping they do try it more photo-realistic. Not to the degree of CSI or Jurassic Park, but at least give the graphics that nice soft painting-like quality that the early 90's characters were based on. Hmmm... I wonder if they'll outsource TSL's models just to save on costs... I can already imagine Cez is bombarding them with business propositions over this news.

What's really getting on my mind here is... will Roberta Williams somehow get involved? I can't see them moving ahead without at least consulting her.

They've remained true to the essence of all the originals of the games they've made story-wise. Not gameplay wise. Gameplay mechanics seem largely unimportant next to telling stories and developing characters. That's not as big an issue with the games they've made thus far (except for BTTF which is just TOO easy for ANY game), but when it comes to King's Quest....that's a largely volatile recipe.

I guess this is all just bad timing for me as a fan of Telltale because my interest in them and their games has slowly been waning over time until I'm at the point now where I have to ask myself if it's really worth it to continue believing for the sake of believing. Telltale will produce a great story-driven game with King's Quest that will sell millions, no doubt. And I can respect that. I just don't know what to make of how they're going to go about it. And I'm past the point of believing everything they do is gold so I can't be as optimistic as I used to be about these things.

Datadog wrote: Wow. Okay, I'm kinda with DPX on this. After reading the thread title, I thought I'd hop in and find lots of excited posts I could contribute to, but instead... yeah. My sky-rocketed enthusiasm about a KQ reboot just got buzz-killed in a heartbeat by the negativity in here. Practically no one seems happy that a talented group of successful adventure game designers (who have so far stayed true to every franchise they've worked on) are now - for the first time ever - reviving a Sierra franchise.

That's because you're a fan of Telltale games! So you SHOULD be excited, and don't let us old folks, who may not be fans of Telltale games, ruin your excitement! It's a discussion, and nothing more! What's right for me, isn't right for everyone!

Datadog wrote: What's really getting on my mind here is... will Roberta Williams somehow get involved? I can't see them moving ahead without at least consulting her.

Yeah! Totally! Because game designers consulted Al Lowe when they made LSL: MCL. Oh wait. They didn't! Oh, but they consulted him with LSL: BOB... Oh, wait, they didn't!

Yeah, somehow I don't think they will consult with Roberta, other than say, "Hey, we're making a KQ game, but without the annoying puzzles you used to put in them! Enjoy going around the world with Ken in your cool little boat!"

Well, the difference here is Telltale has a history of working closely with the original creators of the franchises they work on. I'd be more worried about Roberta actually being interested in giving advice and working with Telltale than the other way around. Although, sources do say that they have at least one original Sierra designer working with them on this project...

It also just occurred to me that this is a milestone over 20 years in the making: Lucasarts + Sierra. This just got a lot more epic.

I'm still not sure how the Telltale approach to the game-play can be considered... worse. Sure, BTTF is sinfully easy, but both that and Jurassic Park are aimed at mainstream gamers - so everything has to be dumbed-down for Joe X-Box. Heck, when I go on their forums, lots of new-bloods can be found asking for hints on a game that already has a hint system.

But when I look at games like "Homestar Runner" and "Tales of Monkey Island," those games have GREAT puzzles, and tons of them too! I mean, "Rise of the Pirate God" alone took me longer to finish than most full-length LEC games. But that's because those games are aimed at actual adventure gamers. They still present a good challenge. I expect KQ will be aimed towards this same demographic.

As for Sierra's game-play... I'm pretty sure we all own at least one hint book from the old days. Hmmm... there's four within arm's reach of me (King's Quest 4, 5, 6 and Gold Rush.)

I don't think it's the game-play we miss, but the experience that came with being part of the Sierra family. We all know the designers, we've seen their faces, and they've often appeared in their own games just to root us on, beat us up, or do some product placement. And more often than not, they just made a big game, left us in a vague sandbox of death traps and expected us to figure it out on our own. Somehow we didn't care about the designers secretly laughing behind our backs, because we were too absorbed into these fascinating worlds they created.

I can't promise Telltale will make a perfect King's Quest game that will re-capture our hearts, but I honestly can't wait to see what happens. The combination of LEC's entertainment value mixed in with the imagination of Sierra should promise an experience of it's own.

Datadog wrote: Sure, BTTF is sinfully easy, but both that and Jurassic Park are aimed at mainstream gamers - so everything has to be dumbed-down for Joe X-Box.

Uh... I happen to be an XBOX person...!

Something I never thought I'd see.

MusicallyInspired wrote:Something I never thought I'd see.

Surprised to see a smiley face after that since you also seem pretty disappointed at the notion of TT Games doing it. (I assume that's a screen shot of their forum, since it's not this forum!)

Well, I did make a sort of balancing post earlier on to temper my otherwise passionate outlook. And yes, that's their forums.

Uh... I happen to be an XBOX person...!

I'm speaking figuratively, of course. No offense to you. X-Box, PS3, Wii, I'm talking about modern mainstream gamers in general - the ones who weren't following adventure games back in the day, and are now confused by this bizarre new style of game-play featured in that BTTF game they just downloaded. The main problem with adapting major movies into games is that you'll attract a huge ton of people who barely have any concept of any puzzle beyond "use key on door."

Something I never thought I'd see.

That's awesome. It's also a good place to vent your thoughts (just in case TT is scouting for ideas.)

It's too late here in Italy (05:44 am) to produce something significant, so I'll just post my thoughts in a very concise manner.

I'm with Datadog here and I'm not even a fan of Telltale games.

But...

1. What I enjoy the most in adventure games are the story and the characters and from what I've seen of Telltale's games they have some pretty good writers. Not Jane Jensen good, of course, but hey... there's only one Jane Jensen. If they can manage to stay true to the atmosphere of the series I'll be really, really happy.

2. Since this is, probably, the only chance to see a revamped Sierra franchise today... hey, count me in!

3. I may not like their games (because I don't like their franchises, usually, in fact I deeply enjoyed the Wallace and Gromit's ones, because I adore the franchise), but yes, in my opinion, they do understand what makes a great adventure so, once again, count me in.

4. I have no idea what I've wrote so far, so, to summarize: count me in!