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This is the Me Generation.

There is so much a spirit of "I deserve happiness", "I deserve to feel fulfilled", "I deserve to have that vastly reduced new console", "I deserve to get that great deal on music", "I deserve", "I deserve", "I deserve"... to the detriment of "How can I be part of this world to make it better?" and "How can I give to others?" and "How can I become a person who has developed the best part of myself instead of the meanest?"

It's so easy to confuse "I want" with "I need", particularly with advertising, a lot of pop psychology and a general message being sent forth that our personal right to happiness and fulfillment is somehow an obligation of the universe, and that if the universe isn't giving that to us, it's somehow right and noble of us to demand it, even if it hurts others.

I am sure we've all met people who truly do think the world owes them a living.

I am very sorry that a man actually perished because of the selfish greed of people who felt their right to a bargain was more important than a man's life - and it's just insult to injury that they continued to feel aggrieved (and to state that grievance) even after knowing what had happened.

True Black Friday has been here for a long time. And Walmart is also being sued for the pain and suffering of the family of the dead employee and because they should have better security to control the mob of 200 people. There were so many people rushing through the door they took the door right off its hinges. Now thats why Wal-mart is responsible. Even the LI police said that Walmart didnt have enough security.

Fender_178 wrote:True Black Friday has been here for a long time. And Walmart is also being sued for the pain and suffering of the family of the dead employee and because they should have better security to control the mob of 200 people. There were so many people rushing through the door they took the door right off its hinges. Now thats why Wal-mart is responsible. Even the LI police said that Walmart didnt have enough security.

I agree that Wal-Mart didn't have enough security to handle this. But realistically speaking, how well do you think those crazed shoppers would've stopped for security guards or some police officers? They broke down the doors and trampled a man to death. They weren't worried about any repercussions. All they wanted was their low-priced gift items.

Perhaps the police could've done more good if they had riot gear on. But who knew it'd get that bad? It never has before, so why think this Black Friday would be any different?

Next year, however, I'm sure Wal-Mart and other stores will have tons of security. Maybe even police with riot gear, as well.

Black Friday is no where near as big as it is in the US. There was a lot of people in the morning but nothing too crazy. It doesn't get really crazy till mid december. Going to Walmart in mid-late december is just the absolute most insane thing to do. It isn't a violent mob but really Walmart is often packed at around that time. Boxing day sales usually come before or after the 26th over here as I'm in one of the only Canadian cities where stores aren't allowed to open on the 26th. Somes stores usually open anyways. Conveniant stores can open on the 26th however. A lot of stores are closed from the 24-26 of December.

Well the thing about boxing day is that there is a mob of people that want to do some returning of gifts.

Very true it probably wouldnt matter if they would have good security there was like 2000 people out there and 200 of the 2000 mobbed through the entrance.

abyss wrote:Black Friday is no where near as big as it is in the US. There was a lot of people in the morning but nothing too crazy. It doesn't get really crazy till mid december. Going to Walmart in mid-late december is just the absolute most insane thing to do. It isn't a violent mob but really Walmart is often packed at around that time. Boxing day sales usually come before or after the 26th over here as I'm in one of the only Canadian cities where stores aren't allowed to open on the 26th. Somes stores usually open anyways. Conveniant stores can open on the 26th however. A lot of stores are closed from the 24-26 of December.

Hmmm... that's unusual. Which city do you live in?

I was under the impression that Black Friday doesn't exist in Canada. Instead, Canadians celebrate Boxing Day with a mad rush to the stores to get items on sale.

Most stores are open on the 24th but many choose to close. Most stores aren't open on the 26th but many choose to open. I'm in Greater Sudbury and over here stores aren't allowed to open on the 26. Some gas stations and some other stores do open though. Technically black friday isn't around in Canada but the sales most often also happen here so the amount of shoppers is higher but nowhere near as high as it would be in the us. Boxing day sales usually occur before or after the 26th instead.

How much security is "enough"? Ideally, you'd want one police officer/security officer for every shopper, but that clearly isn't realistic. What kind of ratio is enough? 1:2? 1:3? If a mob was enacting some kind of rampage like what we've just seen during this Black Friday, could a police officer in full riot gear stop (on average) 3 or 4 members of that mob? I'm no statistician, but I'd imagine that 200 people rampaging through those doors might even crush 50 armed police... *shudder*

Perhaps some kind of strong barricade would be necessary, even.

Rath Darkblade wrote:How much security is "enough"? Ideally, you'd want one police officer/security officer for every shopper, but that clearly isn't realistic. What kind of ratio is enough? 1:2? 1:3? If a mob was enacting some kind of rampage like what we've just seen during this Black Friday, could a police officer in full riot gear stop (on average) 3 or 4 members of that mob? I'm no statistician, but I'd imagine that 200 people rampaging through those doors might even crush 50 armed police... *shudder*

Perhaps some kind of strong barricade would be necessary, even.

I remember someone mentioning (not on here) that police officers should have carried and/or used tasers or tear gas. At first glance, that seems like a good idea, but it wouldn't have helped.

Tasers can only hit one target at a time and if the officers got mobbed, their weapons could be taken away from them. Now you'd have an armed and crazed mob trampling on people. That's not a good scenario.

Tear gas would definitely have an effect, but to what degree? How much would be needed? The gas would also affect employees in addition to making the entire store shut down for a period of time.

Granted, the employees were in danger without any of those options and the store did close. But considering it's Wal-Mart and they sell food and clothes there (in addition to other items), they would've lost tons of revenue on the now gas-infused clothing and perhaps some of the food, as well.

There's really no way around it unless you prohibit people from shopping. Somehow the store will get sued (people always find a way and I can think of several off the top of my head) and people will be hurt. It's a no win situation at the moment.

In the future, I can see two developments that might work against this insanity.

1. Stores implement retinal scanners (like in Minority Report) and that creates a log of who shopped there and for how long. Sure, it's an invasion of privacy and perhaps a security risk, but if the shopper did anything particularly stupid or harmful, they'd be caught much easier than reviewing a CCTV tape.

2. Enforce a policy that's essentially "clocking in" and "clocking out." Everyone from employees to shoppers would be issued a card to shop. There would be ID information on it. Shoppers would be forced to turn in their shopping ID card whenever entering a store and then can pick it up when leaving. Once again, this seems like a violation and potential security risk. However, if the store has a shopper's information, less illegal acts may occur.

These horror stories of shopper gone mad eerily remind me of the stories of football hooligans. o_O

therogue wrote:These horror stories of shopper gone mad eerily remind me of the stories of football hooligans. o_O

Hmmm... then I imagine seeing football hooligans on a shopping spree would be complete chaos.

Sigh. Alas, that a few nutty would-be shoppers ruin it for everyone, just as a few nutty football hooligans ruin it for the vast majority of football fans.

I like football (or "soccer" as the Americans/Australians call it), but I certainly don't go around painting my face with club colours, turning over rubbish bin and causing mayhem just because my club won or lost. There are far more important things in life than sport.

Am I in the minority because I think like that? *curious*

Rath Darkblade wrote:Sigh. Alas, that a few nutty would-be shoppers ruin it for everyone, just as a few nutty football hooligans ruin it for the vast majority of football fans.

I like football (or "soccer" as the Americans/Australians call it), but I certainly don't go around painting my face with club colours, turning over rubbish bin and causing mayhem just because my club won or lost. There are far more important things in life than sport.

Am I in the minority because I think like that? *curious*

Nah. While I don't care much for soccer, I have watched football on rare occasions and been to a couple of games. I'm not a huge sports nut (something Maia is thankful for), but in 2005, I got a little "sports crazy."

There was good reason for this too. It was the first time the Houston Astros (baseball) had ever made it to the World Series. That was one of the best -- if not the best -- team lineup the Astros have ever had.

Barring that event, however, my interest in sports is somewhat sporadic. Events are usually more interesting to me than the day-to-day games. A good example might be the Houston Oilers moved and became the Tennessee Titans. My dad refers to them as the "Tennessee Traitors."