Star Wars: Rogue One [Spoilers Within]

[el_pombo]

One thing I forgot to say is that although the soundtrack wasn't bad, it lacked the powerfulness this movie deserved!

Did you guys like the soundtrack?

[Tawmis]

But at least we saw an influx of emotion from Hayden. He smiled at times, and at times, he got super angry, frustrated, aggressive. Jake Loyd? A cardboard box.

Ehh....they were both different kinds of cardboard boxes. Jake's facial expressions may not have changed much, but he sure had way more passion and inflection in his voice than Hayden, who sounded like he was mumbling all the time. When I saw Hayden all I could see was an actor reciting lines. There was nothing real about any of it. Even his angry lines when he was shouting felt like that, and in those instances he just sounded like a whiny child. I felt no sympathy for the character in any moment. The only time I did was when Anakin left his mother in Ep1.

Hah! We're on polar opposites here. To me, Jake felt like he was literally speaking the lines that were being said in his ear communicator. I mean, even when he looks at Natalie and asks, "Are you an angel?" There was no influx at all. No awe. No admiration. He sounded just the same, as if he would have said, "I like roast beef." Where as Hayden, I didn't get the mumbling thing (except when his character was angry, which makes sense). I think Hayden showed his frustrations (as the character), that logically led to the idea, he wanted the power, the short cut, which, as we know, leads to the dark side. (And mind you, it's not that I liked it; but if I am comparing it to Jake Loyd's performance, it's night and day, how much better - to me - Hayden was). But Hayden also had some very, very, very, corny moments (where he and Natalie are riding the beasts and fall on the grass... so he definitely had some very bad moments, but even his worse, to me, was better than Jake's best {which, I felt were non-existent}). Originally, when I watched it, my sole focus on Episode 01 was how much I hated Jar-Jar. But after repeated watching {like when it came on HBO, and there was nothing else on}, I am finding I don't mind Jar-Jar as much... it's actually Jake that my real problem comes from now.

I think the problem is - the Darth Maul fight (even with me hating the double light sabre) was - hands down - the best fight in the prequels. (Which, again, I don't think they realized what they had with Darth Maul, and killed him off way too soon... he should have been the final fight...)

Totally. I don't even think George had much of an idea at all of what he was going to be doing after Episode 1 until he started working on Episode 2. It just seems so far removed from Episode 1 entirely. Both it and Episode 3 seem to be cut from the same cloth so to speak, but both are just such a drastic departure from the world of Episode 1. The tone shift was good, but to me it was just bad in another way....in a way that made me appreciate it less than Episode 1.

Yeah, but they kind of did that with the prequels too... you definitely feel like there's quite a bit of time between IV and V and even V and VI, because in V, Han makes mention of changing his mind after that bounty hunter he ran into at Orden-Mandel (or whatever it was). But yes, the tone definitely drastically changes between I and II. It would have been nice if I had some mention of the cloning stuff happening, so it would have foreshadowed episode II some...

Well, I think that's part of it, right? He's supposed to have a "passive" name, to hide his secret. If his name was Count Killu, everyone would probably know...

Yes, but it could have been something that sounded less like somebody's name from a toddler's TV series. Like "Vinnarro" or something I don't know. I'm not good with making good names either. He might as well have been named Count Hufflepuff or something. That's how seriously I took it.

Yeah, but Vinnarro sounds like either wine, or a sports car.

"Dude, I just got the 2017 Vinnarro and it's really fast!"

[Tawmis]

One thing I forgot to say is that although the soundtrack wasn't bad, it lacked the powerfulness this movie deserved!
Did you guys like the soundtrack?

Because it's Star Wars, I got the soundtrack... but yes, it was missing something... I know it's not John Williams (who is focusing on Episode VIII)...

But it did lack some "Urmph" - it sounds more like a video game soundtrack.

Still good. But not Star Wars calibur.

[goatmeal]

Because of the mythos/backstory alluded to in the Original Trilogy, the prequel movies were in the unfortunate position of trying to cover TOO MUCH ground, story-wise: the fall of the Old Republic/rise of the Galactic Empire, the Clone Wars, the fall of Anakin/rise of Vader, etc. It was this urge to explain/show it all came to be that proved to be the prequels' undoing. (And keeping some of the mysteries unexplained could have gone a long way...)

Had the prequels...

(a) focused on the larger, epic story of the fall of the Old Republic, with Anakin as an ancillary (yet important) character,

OR

(b) focused on the more personal story of how Anakin turned to the Dark Side against the background of the Old Republic's demise (which would allow for further character development),

...either would have been a much better way to convey the symbiotic fall & rise of both. However, in attempting to cover both grand stories "equally" by splitting the focus, both storylines suffered.

Of course, having different writers (like Empire & Jedi did) certainly wouldn't have hurt, either...

[MusicallyInspired]

I actually enjoyed Rogue One's score more than TFA's. Williams is either losing his touch or just getting old and doing his best, but TFA's soundtrack was really disappointing for me. I mean, it worked, but barely anything memorable at all. Very background, which doesn't seem to me like Williams' style, and certainly not Star Wars' style.

[Tawmis]

Because of the mythos/backstory alluded to in the Original Trilogy, the prequel movies were in the unfortunate position of trying to cover TOO MUCH ground, story-wise: the fall of the Old Republic/rise of the Galactic Empire, the Clone Wars, the fall of Anakin/rise of Vader, etc. It was this urge to explain/show it all came to be that proved to be the prequels' undoing. (And keeping some of the mysteries unexplained could have gone a long way...)

Had the prequels...

(a) focused on the larger, epic story of the fall of the Old Republic, with Anakin as an ancillary (yet important) character, OR (b) focused on the more personal story of how Anakin turned to the Dark Side against the background of the Old Republic's demise (which would allow for further character development),
...either would have been a much better way to convey the symbiotic fall & rise of both. However, in attempting to cover both grand stories "equally" by splitting the focus, both storylines suffered. Of course, having different writers (like Empire & Jedi did) certainly wouldn't have hurt, either...

Falling to keep some of the mysteries is where I think they messed up... And then trying to explain everything in three movies... They didn't need to explain the fall of the Old Republic, that could have happened generations ago... it could have focused on the growing rise of the Empire, and the creation of the Death Star (which should have taken an insane amount of time; and the only problem I really have with TFA, because making a killer planet should have taken more than 20 or 30 years or whatever time passed)... So I would have liked to see the prequels focus on the power of the Empire, and how it affected everything... and could have had this small, Jedi rebellion, trying to put a stop to it... and Anakin, growing more and more furious that the Jedi are not willing to do "what it takes to win"... which eventually leads him to conflict with the Emperor, who turns him successfully (so the scene would have been similar to how he tried to turn Luke, but failed...)

I actually enjoyed Rogue One's score more than TFA's. Williams is either losing his touch or just getting old and doing his best, but TFA's soundtrack was really disappointing for me. I mean, it worked, but barely anything memorable at all. Very background, which doesn't seem to me like Williams' style, and certainly not Star Wars' style.

It feels odd to disagree with someone who basically knows more about music in their pinky than I do in my entire body (and I have a big body!)... But I thought TFA soundtrack kept the vibe of Star Wars... like when I listen to it, I can clearly recall the scenes where Finn and Rey are running from the TIE Fighters, and such... where as Rogue One, is very, very subtle... like no... "action" music (despite the fact that Rogue One was almost 90% action)...

[MusicallyInspired]

No action music? You're right. We are polar opposites. I can clearly remember very lively upbeat and thematic action music. Music I thought personally was very fitting for a Star Wars movie. TFA's music was fitting as well, just not thematic. I only recalled Rey's music and one other theme during a....certain very spoilery scene. And both were very minimal. I recognize more now because I also bought the soundtrack and know a lot of the themes now, but nothing popped out to me like it did with the OT and the PT for that matter. Actually, all I can remember from Rogue One was action music. lol

I'm not even going to get into the mess you wrote about what you think the prequels should have been. It would conflict with a lot of information given about the prequel era in the OT itself.

[Tawmis]

I'm not even going to get into the mess you wrote about what you think the prequels should have been. It would conflict with a lot of information given about the prequel era in the OT itself.

How so? From the OT, we only know that the Jedi were nearly wiped out.

So I am not sure how a prequel, focusing on the Empire's growth, and a Jedi rebellion, and Vader turning to the dark side, would conflict with anything?

[MusicallyInspired]

We do know that the "last remnants of The Old Republic" were still around to be "swept away" and that "the Emperor dissolved the council/senate permanently" by the beginning of ANH. The Republic was still around enough to not have been overthrown years before the Clone Wars/Jedi fall/Anakin's turn. That simply had to have happened all at the same time.

[Tawmis]

We do know that the "last remnants of The Old Republic" were still around to be "swept away" and that "the Emperor dissolved the council/senate permanently" by the beginning of ANH. The Republic was still around enough to not have been overthrown years before the Clone Wars/Jedi fall/Anakin's turn. That simply had to have happened all at the same time.

We know that Ben Kenobi fought in the Clone Wars... and that he was a Jedi Knight, the same as Luke's father.
We know that Luke's father followed Obi-Wan on some "damn fool crusade"
And we know "for a thousand generations, the Jedi were the guardians of peace for the republic... before the dark times... before the Empire"
And we know that Luke's father was a young Jedi who "killed Luke's father"
And "now the Jedi are all but extinct"
Leia's hologram says "Years ago, you served my [adopted] father in the Clone Wars."

So I had said:

They didn't need to explain the fall of the Old Republic, that could have happened generations ago... it could have focused on the growing rise of the Empire, and the creation of the Death Star (which should have taken an insane amount of time; and the only problem I really have with TFA, because making a killer planet should have taken more than 20 or 30 years or whatever time passed)... So I would have liked to see the prequels focus on the power of the Empire, and how it affected everything... and could have had this small, Jedi rebellion, trying to put a stop to it... and Anakin, growing more and more furious that the Jedi are not willing to do "what it takes to win"... which eventually leads him to conflict with the Emperor, who turns him successfully (so the scene would have been similar to how he tried to turn Luke, but failed...)

So I don't see, how we needed to see anything about the Old Republic's fall. We have no time frame for it. Only that the Jedis were the guardians of peace for it. The Empire could have certainly crushed most of the Republic 18 years (roughly, since I gauge Luke to be about 18 in ANH). So I don't see why Episode 01 couldn't strictly be about the Empire already in power, and the Jedi fighting against the Empire, and make the main focus about Obi-Wan and Anakin, during their fight against the Empire, having learned about the Empire's plan to create a "Death Star." (This gives the Empire 18 years to make this spherical dome of death, before we see it in ANH {and Rogue One}). That way, we at least have a time line for the Death Star - and not just, "They made it, and kept it a big secret, and no one saw this coming!" And I think, showing the Empire doing all that it's doing (clones for Stormtroopers, building a Death Star), over the course of the 3 movies, we see Anakin fall to the dark side, because he's frustrated and angry, that the Jedi won't go tick for tat and do what "it takes" to put an end to the Empire.

So I'd see the first Episode as Anakin, happy, falls in love (setting up Luke and Leia). Episode 2, is where we see the focus from happiness to frustration with the Jedi. Episode 3, he begins going out doing things on his own, some pretty dark things (against the Empire), and it eventually leads him to confront the Emperor - who successfully turns him (as I said above, similar to the scene where he tried to turn Luke and failed).

And the 18 year gap between Episode III and Episode IV, would be Vader hunting down and eliminating the Jedi, leaving them "all but extinct."

[MusicallyInspired]

I don't think I can buy that the Old Republic had been dying for decades and decades and STILL have a little bit lying around by the beginning of ANH for the Emperor to have "swept away." That's the clincher for me. I think the story of the prequels is a good one. I just think it was written very poorly and directed even more poorly. I love pretty much all the lore it brings to the table (besides the midichlorians, of course).