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Some questions and observations on the commentary version ...

- You get the plastic gloves from the kit ... but you never have to use them? What if you have to pick up evidence?

Also, it's probably the COVID talking, but -- I shuddered.

- O-K ... er. Your boss knows that it's your partner, but he assigns you to the case anyway? Isn't that against regulations (or ... basically everything that police movies/books/etc. have said over the years? For instance, when Dirty Harry's various partners get gunned down, he ALWAYS gets taken off the case. And then he always effs it up, gets kicked off the force, and solves the case anyway).

- "Buling!" sound effect.

- The fact that the narrator gets on everyone's nerves is probably why I didn't get very far in this game.

- Sigh. Why (on the 7th floor) is a policeman pointing a gun at you??? Why (on the 2nd, 5th and 6th floor) is the janitor not moving his cleaning stuff away, so you can pass? Is it because the designers didn't want to code those floors etc.? (Railroading the PCs)...

- Yes, I remember the Rodney King trials. (I was in middle-high school at the time, but the LA Riots made international news ... wow).

- The lady at the desk (at the coroners') is doing the right thing, even if it might be irritating. Someone could've stolen Carey's badge etc. Anything could happen.

- OTOH, when you talk to the coroner and ask about the wounds, bullets, lividity etc... and it never comes up again ... what is that? Is it just to show "Look, we did our research!" etc.?

Also, good point about why this poison angle never went anywhere. The killer could've been - say - a former toxicologist or pharmacist. (Why not? They know lots about medicines and poisons).

- Good point about serial killers. Andrei Chikatilo (the story of his capture is covered in the film "Citizen X", for instance) got away with serial-killing (and rape) in Soviet Russia for nearly 13 years (during which he raped, killed and mutilated at least 51 women).

Murderers who get caught in 4 days are dumb. So should we be impressed that Detective Carey caught a stupid murderer?

Then again, Chikatilo himself was a timid, retiring sort of guy. How did he get away with it? Because one, the official Soviet line was that serial killings don't happen in the "perfect" Soviet Union (only in "degenerate" America); two, Chikatilo was a member of the Soviet Party, and the party didn't like admitting that "one of their own" could do something that horrible; and three, the women he met thought that his timidness meant he was harmless. *shudder*

- "Use the baton to get bullets from the wall!" / "Put bullets in plastic bag!"

- I'm so fly. Whatchu talkin' about, Willis?

And the guy wearing the same shirt and bandana ... yes. Because people don't have more than one outfit. And yes, I remember payphones.

- Why are there apples on the counter? Because, obviously, you need to grab one!

- Er ............ yes. What is it with a little girl sitting on a sidewalk, just one screen away from where a violent murder took place? And ... how does her mum know that John Carey isn't some weirdo out to kidnap her little girl? I mean, WTF?

- The chocolate bar. Yes, how do you carry a chocolate bar the entire game (4 days) without it melting in your pocket? Yuck. Maybe that's why the game won't let you give it to the dog. It's so melted, it's glued to your pocket!

Good point about not giving the chocolate bar to the kid. Not to mention, her mum's right there (one screen away), and she'd probably think John was a weirdo wannabe kidnapper.

- Great. A house belonging not just to a White Supremacist, but a stupid one too. (Honestly, who sprays swastika and "SS" on the wall and hangs up SS banners as decoration? Does no-one remember the Nazis? We fought a WAR against them, the bloodiest and most brutal war in the last 80 years! Does no-one KNOW this crap?)

I agree, Nazi banners etc. are S&%@. The Nazis may have had stuff that looked cool in a "heavy metal" kind of way, but there's nothing to admire about them.

- What's with this "mother" who comes out of the chief's office and says "Why was my boy stripped, he's not a pervert" etc.? I don't know what any of that's about.

- Um, the City Hall thing makes no sense. It looks like you're inside a church. Is it City Hall or a church?

- Er, what? In the impound lot, you have to show someone your badge and he tells you "Tell Beavis and Butthead" or something like that?

- The guy at the Coroner's who tells really bad jokes. And you're like "Hahahaha! Go right in". Why? Because people like that exist. But why put 'em in the game?

- DOGGY! But you're right - dogs shouldn't eat pretzels. Maybe one is OK for dogs, but all that salt ... Not sure if that's OK for dogs.

- Femur? What kind of bone is that?

True about the bone. The coroner should've mentioned if Jane Doe's body was missing a bone.

What do dogs do? Dogs bury bones. (And drool, and pee, and lick your face, and so on...)

- Why would the guy outside the music store risk breaking into a detective's car? Because he's a moron.

- I'm also surprised that youtube allowed this video, given that there's a topless woman dancing in the strip club.

- As for the guy who says "Dude"? Yes. It's the old Department of Redundancy Department (not to be confused with the Redundancy Department of Redundancy). Duuuuuuuude!

Maybe he says "Dude" so much because Sierra wanted the game to sound "cool"?

- And yes, driving around with no mirror is definitely illegal.

.....sorry, I got as far as 1 hour, 15 minutes but skipped to the end. PQ4 just bored me. (Sorry).

Yep, your dog is barking in the background. (Hugs to her!)

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - You get the plastic gloves from the kit ... but you never have to use them? What if you have to pick up evidence?

All the evidence I found the baggy was used. I am sure the gloves MUST be used somewhere. I just don't know where.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Sigh. Why (on the 7th floor) is a policeman pointing a gun at you??? Why (on the 2nd, 5th and 6th floor) is the janitor not moving his cleaning stuff away, so you can pass? Is it because the designers didn't want to code those floors etc.? (Railroading the PCs)...

7th floor is the Counter Terrorist Unit. Narrator says, "He takes his job seriously."

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - The lady at the desk (at the coroners') is doing the right thing, even if it might be irritating. Someone could've stolen Carey's badge etc. Anything could happen.

Except each time, she greets you by name. So she clearly knows YOU.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am Also, good point about why this poison angle never went anywhere. The killer could've been - say - a former toxicologist or pharmacist. (Why not? They know lots about medicines and poisons).

Yeah the fact that you learn all of these victims were poisoned, and they're looking into the kind of poison, but then it is never revealed, bothered me.
Clearly. As I discuss that quite a bit in the video. I think a few times. lol

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Good point about serial killers. Andrei Chikatilo (the story of his capture is covered in the film "Citizen X", for instance) got away with serial-killing (and rape) in Soviet Russia for nearly 13 years (during which he raped, killed and mutilated at least 51 women).

Urmph. I'd never heard of him. That's an insane history - and killing spree - and so dark.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am And the guy wearing the same shirt and bandana ... yes. Because people don't have more than one outfit. And yes, I remember payphones.

That is the one thing true of ALL Sierra games, however. People wear the same outfit no matter how many days go by.
The only person I think ever changed clothes was Rosella in KQ4.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - The chocolate bar. Yes, how do you carry a chocolate bar the entire game (4 days) without it melting in your pocket? Yuck. Maybe that's why the game won't let you give it to the dog. It's so melted, it's glued to your pocket!

It must be used somewhere. I am thinking that maybe to give to the little girl if you didn't pick up the apple.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Great. A house belonging not just to a White Supremacist, but a stupid one too. (Honestly, who sprays swastika and "SS" on the wall and hangs up SS banners as decoration? Does no-one remember the Nazis? We fought a WAR against them, the bloodiest and most brutal war in the last 80 years! Does no-one KNOW this crap?)
I agree, Nazi banners etc. are S&%@. The Nazis may have had stuff that looked cool in a "heavy metal" kind of way, but there's nothing to admire about them.

I think White Supremacists do display this type of stuff in their home.
(I don't know any so I can't confirm)

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Femur? What kind of bone is that?

Femur, also called thighbone, upper bone of the leg or hind leg

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Why would the guy outside the music store risk breaking into a detective's car? Because he's a moron.

Yeah and why does Carey do nothing about it?

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am .....sorry, I got as far as 1 hour, 15 minutes but skipped to the end. PQ4 just bored me. (Sorry).
Yep, your dog is barking in the background. (Hugs to her!)

No worries! I appreciate you watching and commenting.
And yes, Moxie May barking got someone else's attention (someone commented on the video about it and how their dog reacted to Moxie May barking)

Tawmis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:10 pm

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Good point about serial killers. Andrei Chikatilo (the story of his capture is covered in the film "Citizen X", for instance) got away with serial-killing (and rape) in Soviet Russia for nearly 13 years (during which he raped, killed and mutilated at least 51 women).

Urmph. I'd never heard of him. That's an insane history - and killing spree - and so dark.

What's even worse is that the Soviet Party covered up for him for so long -- first by refusing to admit that serial killers existed in Soviet Russia, and second by refusing to even consider him (because he was a member of the Party). Here's the wiki-article about him, but a warning: as you said, his career is extremely dark.

Even more interesting is the fact that his case was the first in Russia to involve a criminal psychologist, who built up a profile of the murderer. But the psychologist faced a lot of pressure and hostility from the Party. It was also the first case in Russia to admit forensic evidence.

The film "Citizen X", which focuses on this, is extremely good (though obviously NSFW or for kids). I recommend it highly.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:10 pm

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am And the guy wearing the same shirt and bandana ... yes. Because people don't have more than one outfit. And yes, I remember payphones.

That is the one thing true of ALL Sierra games, however. People wear the same outfit no matter how many days go by.
The only person I think ever changed clothes was Rosella in KQ4.

Nope - Sonny Bonds changes clothes often in PQ1 (and PQ2, IIRC?)

Also, the QfG hero changes clothes from game to game (although his "look" was pretty much settled after QfG3).

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:45 pm Here's the wiki-article about him, but a warning: as you said, his career is extremely dark.

Yup - it was Wikipedia where I read up on him after you mentioned him.
And that's why I said it was so dark - not only his murder spree - but his own upbringing (which is still no excuse for his murder spree - he was clearly a very sick individual).

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:45 pm Nope - Sonny Bonds changes clothes often in PQ1 (and PQ2, IIRC?)
Also, the QfG hero changes clothes from game to game (although his "look" was pretty much settled after QfG3).

You're right - Sonny does in PQ when he goes undercover.
And QFG - the hero changing clothing from game to game - well then most of them, other than Larry Laffer, changed their clothes from game to game.
But Larry did in LSL3 (from Hawaiian Shirt to LSL clothing)

Oh! That's true too. But then, Sonny Bonds changes frequently in PQ1 (e.g. when he comes on shift and when he goes off-shift). I think he does that in PQ2, doesn't he?

I don't think King Graham ever changed his clothes. Pee-you! They must stink by now.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:44 pm I don't think King Graham ever changed his clothes. Pee-you! They must stink by now.

I think he only ever changed between games? KQ1 and 2, he looks to be wearing the same outfit. Can't recall his outfit at the end of KQ3.
KQ4 he has, pretty much the same outfit.
KQ5 is just nicer graphics of that outfit.
Can't remember his outfit in KQ6 or if he even seen in KQ7?

Just finished watching the video. You are right. There are a bunch of problems with the story and how the murders are done. The first, as you mentioned, is the use of the poison that they make a big deal out of and constantly say can't be identified. But in the end, it doesn't matter. So why mention it in the first place. The killer could have justed stabbed the victims and nothing would have changed. The second thing is the use of the glue. Movies and TV like to give serial killers some sort of gimmick (which is probably not true in real life). It is hinted that the glue is to serve some sort of message. The coroner mentions "See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil." based on where the glue is placed, but we never get any indication as to what the killers motivations may be. So the glue thing doesn't matter either. For that matter we never learn how the victims are targeted. I guess they all went to the theater. But Hickman got into a fight with his wife and then... went to a seedy movie theater? And I guess the social worker maybe figured all this out? Then there's the seemingly unrelated clues. The social worker had a Yo Money cassette. (Why?) Is that why the second cop was left at his mansion? She also had the woman at the strip club as a client. Is that why the two bodies in the car were left there? None of this is ever explained. There's also the syringe at the end. The coroner never mentioned injection marks. None of this connects. And we only learn who the suspect is because he acts strangely (maybe Carey should have brought him to the station for a more thorough interrogation) and the dog leads Carey to the place (seriously?).

The gang involvement and the neo-Nazi are there pretty much as red herrings. Like in an episode of Law & Order where the first suspect is seldom the actual culprit. Only there it is done much better. Here they never seemed like viable suspects. They are probably there so you can have the shoot out and to follow arrest procedures, since you won't do that with the actual killer.

I also never found a use for the gloves. Maybe the cut out a part where you have to put them on, but having to do that proved too tedious.

10:30 - PQ4 was released in 1993. The Rodney King beating was in 1991 and the riots in 1992. Gates left in 1992, so he was no longer chief when he worked on the game.

36:00 I never bothered getting the chocolate bar. I guess it could have been used on the little girl instead of the apple.

1:01:00 - It's been a while, but I thought the third victim was missing a limb. The bone is there because the killer gave it to his dog. He mentions that he gives the dog "juicy bones".

So does the killer die at the end? Not that it matters.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - O-K ... er. Your boss knows that it's your partner, but he assigns you to the case anyway? Isn't that against regulations (or ... basically everything that police movies/books/etc. have said over the years? For instance, when Dirty Harry's various partners get gunned down, he ALWAYS gets taken off the case. And then he always effs it up, gets kicked off the force, and solves the case anyway).

But then Sonny investigate his own wife's assault. That's an even bigger no-no.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Um, the City Hall thing makes no sense. It looks like you're inside a church. Is it City Hall or a church?

That is what the interior to the City Hall looks like, though you are right. It does look like a church.

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ng-june-15

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - Um, the City Hall thing makes no sense. It looks like you're inside a church. Is it City Hall or a church?

That is what the interior to the City Hall looks like, though you are right. It does look like a church.

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ng-june-15

Huh. For a Jewish person, I sure know a lot about churches. That's probably because I've performed sacred choral music for the past 14 years, so obviously I've been to a lot of various churches!

Incidentally, that shot of the LA City Hall reminds me, specifically, of the interior of St Paul's Cathedral here in Melbourne. Here is what it looks like. Note the arches, the pews, and the nave right down the middle. All right, the decorations down the end may be different, but it looks very similar, right?

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am Just finished watching the video. You are right. There are a bunch of problems with the story and how the murders are done. The first, as you mentioned, is the use of the poison that they make a big deal out of and constantly say can't be identified. But in the end, it doesn't matter. So why mention it in the first place. The killer could have justed stabbed the victims and nothing would have changed.

Yeah. I am guessing they mention the use of poison because it'd explain how two cops were killed.
But I feel like - OK, if it's going to be poison - why not mention what kind?
I feel like if they'd said, "It looks like the poison was Deadly Nightshade."

Because -
According to legend, Macbeth’s soldiers poisoned the invading Danes with wine made from the sweet fruit of deadly nightshade. Indeed, it is the sweetness of the berries that often lures children and unwitting adults to consume this lethal plant. A native of wooded or waste areas in central and southern Eurasia, deadly nightshade has dull green leaves and shiny black berries about the size of cherries. Nightshade contains atropine and scopolamine in its stems, leaves, berries, and roots, and causes paralysis in the involuntary muscles of the body, including the heart. Even physical contact with the leaves may cause skin irritation.

And then LATER when you get the psyche profile - if you read it - it makes mention how the guy (whose name I can't remember, from the theater) had a vested interest in gardening exotic plants.

This would at least create a BRIDGE to the idea - that - "Ok, he's lacing the sweet tea with deadly nightshade."

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am The second thing is the use of the glue. Movies and TV like to give serial killers some sort of gimmick (which is probably not true in real life). It is hinted that the glue is to serve some sort of message. The coroner mentions "See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil." based on where the glue is placed, but we never get any indication as to what the killers motivations may be. So the glue thing doesn't matter either.

Agreed - because it's the same glue that's bought everywhere, according to Chester.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am For that matter we never learn how the victims are targeted. I guess they all went to the theater. But Hickman got into a fight with his wife and then... went to a seedy movie theater? And I guess the social worker maybe figured all this out? Then there's the seemingly unrelated clues. The social worker had a Yo Money cassette. (Why?) Is that why the second cop was left at his mansion?

You'd need to make the leap - because I assume - the murderer (I forgot his name) - had probably talked to his social worker. Somehow Yo Money got brought up, and how she probably bought the tape and didn't like it and planned to return it. So the murderer decided to leave a dead cop on Yo Money's lawn as a way for the murderer being frustrated that Yo Money's music was apparently lame and had upset his social worker.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am There's also the syringe at the end. The coroner never mentioned injection marks. None of this connects. And we only learn who the suspect is because he acts strangely (maybe Carey should have brought him to the station for a more thorough interrogation) and the dog leads Carey to the place (seriously?).

Agreed. If the way he's getting his victims is by tainting the tea (which I assume, since Carey falls asleep in the theater; and we see the woman asleep in the theater later) - then why the syringe?
And as I said in my video - he (murderer) had Carey dead to rights TWICE. TWICE. Once when Carey drank the tea and fell asleep. Why not kill him then since he was clearly investigating the murders?
And then again, when the murderer punches Carey - but leaves him in the living room? Again, now you KNOW he's investigating your murders - and SEEN YOU in the dress - but you don't kill Carey?

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am 1:01:00 - It's been a while, but I thought the third victim was missing a limb. The bone is there because the killer gave it to his dog. He mentions that he gives the dog "juicy bones".

I believe they're all missing limbs (except maybe the first victim, the cop). He mentions a hand, a foot, etc.
But the femur bone is the entire leg. I don't think he mentions a leg missing. Just a foot.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am So does the killer die at the end? Not that it matters.

It certainly doesn't say. But, certainly burn wounds from the head up.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 am - O-K ... er. Your boss knows that it's your partner, but he assigns you to the case anyway? Isn't that against regulations (or ... basically everything that police movies/books/etc. have said over the years? For instance, when Dirty Harry's various partners get gunned down, he ALWAYS gets taken off the case. And then he always effs it up, gets kicked off the force, and solves the case anyway).

But then Sonny investigate his own wife's assault. That's an even bigger no-no.

Also true, but ... in PQ3 - seemed more normal of a Sierra game.
PQ4 seems to paint itself as far more realistic. So it's a little more odd there.

IIRC, extracts from deadly nightshade (especially atropine) was used in medicine - but only tiny amounts. Given that one or two berries can kill a child, and ten berries can kill an adult ... *shudder* It's not called 'deadly' for nothing!

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:50 pm IIRC, extracts from deadly nightshade (especially atropine) was used in medicine - but only tiny amounts. Given that one or two berries can kill a child, and ten berries can kill an adult ... *shudder* It's not called 'deadly' for nothing!

I just picked deadly nightshade because I suspect (since it's never made clear) that the killer is lacing the tea with something. And I figured deadly nightshade is described as a sweet type thing, so it would probably be difficult to detect when laced into a drink.

(Though I don't know for sure, MR. FBI, if you're reading this post)

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:12 am Incidentally, that shot of the LA City Hall reminds me, specifically, of the interior of St Paul's Cathedral here in Melbourne. Here is what it looks like. Note the arches, the pews, and the nave right down the middle. All right, the decorations down the end may be different, but it looks very similar, right?

They do look remarkably similar.