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notbobsmith wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:55 am I was using ScummVM since I have the GOG version which comes with it and the game (inexplicably) doesn't have the executable so I couldn't use DOSBox.
I haven't played the game in a few years, and I think I may be suppressing traumatic memories, so I don't really remember what those inventory items do or where I got them. I think I have an idea what the circuit board is for, but the map (I think?) is a mystery to me.
I'm not really sure about the bug with the digger. I don't think I've encountered that.

Yeah, saw you were using ScummVM - because I downloaded the save games, and the version I was using was also GoG.
I've since just installed it from the CD (and use DOSBox) - but that doesn't allow for reading the ScummVM version.
So I thought, "I will just use NBS' games - pick up from the baby part." But when I saw those two items, I was like, "I've not seen those yet!"
I may still just use those - and make a note in the game play - rather than start all over from DOSBox.

Using NBS's save games - I had to restore a way back to see things that weren't familiar - but I was able to finally catch up to where I was, pass where I was, and tonight - finished the game.

There's about a 200% chance I will never play that game again.

Rendering the video now... it's pretty long because it's such a click fest... and the train thing was an utter nightmare.

This game makes Codename: Iceman look like King's Quest VI.

All in all, the non commentary version - is going to come up to around 11 or 12 hours... lol

Effing ridiculous how often a lot of that is back tracking and redoing things... because nothing is clear in that game...

And that's with some of it trimmed out, too. Like if I saw somewhere where I went and did one thing, did six other things, and missed something - I'd try to trim that out if it still managed to flow a little in the video.

This game is a literal nightmare.

And the best part - was realizing I'd forgotten a few things (like the baby, and the switch to the door), and had already set the timer to go off in an hour... so I was driving a literal death trap with a timer of death on it near the end.

10 hours and 58 minutes of complete frustration .... (still processing HD version of the video)....

Yikes. If this game is that much of a pain, perhaps I shouldn't play it? I have a few other games I'd like to play, first.

I think MI played an instrument or two on a game called Druidstone - I'd still like to try and finish it, but it's very frustrating.

I'm also - still, and sadly - rather addicted to modded Skyrim. I REALLY need to kick that addiction. Damn you, Bethesda!

Never played Lighthouse. Why is it such a pain? *curious*

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:54 pm Yikes. If this game is that much of a pain, perhaps I shouldn't play it? I have a few other games I'd like to play, first.
I think MI played an instrument or two on a game called Druidstone - I'd still like to try and finish it, but it's very frustrating.
I'm also - still, and sadly - rather addicted to modded Skyrim. I REALLY need to kick that addiction. Damn you, Bethesda!
Never played Lighthouse. Why is it such a pain? *curious*

Druidstone? This Druidstone?

Because, pretty sure he didn't.

I think you mean Mage Initation.

As for Lighthouse... have you ever played Myst?

Imagine that.

But then ten times as hard.

And ten times as weird.

My commentary (which I reduced down to 1 hour rather than 10 hours and 58 minutes, lol) - goes over it.

But some of the puzzles are ridiculous (the "rubixcube" I will call it) and the "train maze."

And everything between.

When you're on Earth - it's not too bad. Over all you're picking up standard things (lighter, umbrella, etc) - but once you go "interdimensional" you often pick up... odd things and there's no looking at it - it's just a small picture of the inventory item...

Some of the puzzles offer no clue, whatsoever, as to what you're supposed to do to build things, or what levers to pull, so it's all a guessing game....

Everything's a click-fest.

Yes, you're right. Whoops. *blush* But I know one of the people here played a few instruments on Druidstone. Who was it, I wonder?

As for Lighthouse ... never played Myst. I tried playing Alone in the Dark, but five minutes of that was enough.

No wonder I like Sierra's Quest games better.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:08 am Yes, you're right. Whoops. *blush* But I know one of the people here played a few instruments on Druidstone. Who was it, I wonder?
As for Lighthouse ... never played Myst. I tried playing Alone in the Dark, but five minutes of that was enough.
No wonder I like Sierra's Quest games better.

You know someone who did something in Druidstone? On the forums here? I think you're maybe thinking how I was promoting the game? Because it's made by the same folks who made Legend of Grimrock and I am an admin/moderator on the forums for both games?

Commentary version -

Tawmis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:13 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:08 am Yes, you're right. Whoops. *blush* But I know one of the people here played a few instruments on Druidstone. Who was it, I wonder?
As for Lighthouse ... never played Myst. I tried playing Alone in the Dark, but five minutes of that was enough.
No wonder I like Sierra's Quest games better.

You know someone who did something in Druidstone? On the forums here? I think you're maybe thinking how I was promoting the game? Because it's made by the same folks who made Legend of Grimrock and I am an admin/moderator on the forums for both games?

Possibly. "Grimrock" sounds familiar. But I can't remember! *blush*

No wonder I can't remember. I've been running myself ragged the past few days IRL, running here and there and everywhere. The past few nights I've been unable to sleep soundly for more than about 6.5-7 hours. I woke up this morning at 5:30am, shivering, with a sore throat, sore head, and sniffling ... I think I might be coming down with a cold. *sneezes* Drat it! *sniff, sniffle*

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:19 pm

Tawmis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:13 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:08 am Yes, you're right. Whoops. *blush* But I know one of the people here played a few instruments on Druidstone. Who was it, I wonder?
As for Lighthouse ... never played Myst. I tried playing Alone in the Dark, but five minutes of that was enough.
No wonder I like Sierra's Quest games better.

You know someone who did something in Druidstone? On the forums here? I think you're maybe thinking how I was promoting the game? Because it's made by the same folks who made Legend of Grimrock and I am an admin/moderator on the forums for both games?

Possibly. "Grimrock" sounds familiar. But I can't remember! *blush*
No wonder I can't remember. I've been running myself ragged the past few days IRL, running here and there and everywhere. The past few nights I've been unable to sleep soundly for more than about 6.5-7 hours. I woke up this morning at 5:30am, shivering, with a sore throat, sore head, and sniffling ... I think I might be coming down with a cold. *sneezes* Drat it! *sniff, sniffle*

Yeah - methinks you're confused. Because I am absolutely certain no one on the forums did music for Druidstone or Grimrock.

I am an admin on the Grimrock forums and work closely with the developers for the site stuff.

And that got me into BETA testing of Druidstone.

Which is probably what you're thinking of.

Fair enough. Like I said, lack of sleep plays havoc with the old memory.

Last night, I got just 3 hours of sleep. Yeesh!

I finally watched your commentary playthrough. I think you covered pretty much everything as to why I couldn't stand this game either.

7:00 The inability to look at inventory items so sometimes you can't even speculate what you are carrying. I was trying to remember what the two things that look like sunflower seeds did.

8:00 and 8:44 Poorly designed rooms where you have to be in a specific location in order to interact with something. I think I remember the room you mention at 8:44. I got "lost" in a small, circular room.

10:07 The pan flute thing is used to summon the flying machine to your location. That way if you leave it on one island, but end up on another using other means (e.g. the portal) you don't end up stuck. I don't think I used it on my playthrough and you don't technically need it if you complete everything you need to do and don't need to go back.

23:00 I had the same problem with not seeing the hallway even after walking past it a dozen times.

39:21 It is pretty funny that you can't use the drill to get through the rocks. Isn't that what the machine is for?

56:52 My memory is fuzzy, but I don't think you need to set off the bomb. I seem to remember that during the closing sequence, the scientist just says something about hoping that no one finds the portal technology. I think there is another ending where you don't capture the Dark Being, but I forget how you do that.

One of the things you mentioned about the small number of save files from my playthrough: part of the reason I had so few was that the game (to its credit) doesn't actually have any places to dead-end. I never felt the need to save too often.

You do compliment the graphics, but to be honest, I wasn't thrilled with them. Compared to Myst, everything just looks drab and uninteresting.

I'm still not sure what caused your bug.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am I finally watched your commentary playthrough. I think you covered pretty much everything as to why I couldn't stand this game either.
7:00 The inability to look at inventory items so sometimes you can't even speculate what you are carrying. I was trying to remember what the two things that look like sunflower seeds did.

Yes, that bothered me so much. Like I get, sure you leave the main character ambiguous - so maybe it's not read in their voice. But a text description would be great.

This is even further problematic because SOME of the items you NEED to look at them to do something with them (like the bird that goes in the clock).

I just wish it was consistent - always give a text description below the item - and if you can rotate it (like the bird and a few other things), you can do so.

Otherwise, the player is discouraged from every looking at the items since the first few items don't do much.

Well, except the lighter.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 8:00 and 8:44 Poorly designed rooms where you have to be in a specific location in order to interact with something. I think I remember the room you mention at 8:44. I got "lost" in a small, circular room.

There's a number of times, where it's just a small room (top of the lighthouse, the other thing with the hook and fish, the cannonball room) where trying to get back out/down of the room is difficult.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 10:07 The pan flute thing is used to summon the flying machine to your location. That way if you leave it on one island, but end up on another using other means (e.g. the portal) you don't end up stuck. I don't think I used it on my playthrough and you don't technically need it if you complete everything you need to do and don't need to go back.

Do you? I thought I used the flying machine and went to a different island. But maybe I restored when I saw it was the island I was already on? But I thought you could just use the bird to fly back? No need for the flute thing?
Because after the lighthouse on the other side (for lack of a better word) - you pretty much have the sub. So if you sub to the bird lighthouse - then bird fly to the talkative girl island - you can just fly back from there, right, without the flute? Because I thought that's what I did. I may have just restored though. Can't remember, since it was 10 hours and 58 minutes of hell.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 23:00 I had the same problem with not seeing the hallway even after walking past it a dozen times.

Glad I am not alone. Was a fluke when I happened to have turned. I think I even said something about maybe it opens after something is triggered.
Or...
It's just that easy to miss.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 39:21 It is pretty funny that you can't use the drill to get through the rocks. Isn't that what the machine is for?

That was literally my thought. "Oh, cute you caused a cave in. Well I got this handy dandy drill. Oh, I can't use it here?"
(10 hours later)
"Wait, so I can't drill through some boulders, but I can drill through a stone wall? Ok..."

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 56:52 My memory is fuzzy, but I don't think you need to set off the bomb. I seem to remember that during the closing sequence, the scientist just says something about hoping that no one finds the portal technology. I think there is another ending where you don't capture the Dark Being, but I forget how you do that.

I don't think the bomb is required.
I only did it because when I used the dynamite for the aforementioned rock slide.
I saw the clock, and when I couldn't use it for parts - I was like, "I bet this is part of a bomb."
I assumed, that's how you'd defeat the Dark Being - is knock him out and use the digger as a bomb.
Did not think the gun was going to suck him into a container...
Which was also odd.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am One of the things you mentioned about the small number of save files from my playthrough: part of the reason I had so few was that the game (to its credit) doesn't actually have any places to dead-end. I never felt the need to save too often.

Hah. I think I saved so often (well over 140 saves, because once I reached 99 I was overwriting older ones) - because a lot of times, I had no idea what I was doing and wasn't sure if what I was doing was a good idea or not or going to dead end me. But I think you're right, there's no way to dead end...

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am You do compliment the graphics, but to be honest, I wasn't thrilled with them. Compared to Myst, everything just looks drab and uninteresting.

Yeah, I still liked them, over all. I didn't feel like they felt... dated. Like when I look at Mask of Eternity, it feels so horribly dated to me. (Which only fuels my dislike of it, further).

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am I'm still not sure what caused your bug.

Neither am I - because, even when I restored further back in the game (still on the "digger island/volcano island") - whenever I got to the same part it'd freeze on the spin.
It even froze before that on one of my restore attempts, when turning the digger.

So something in how I did something, caused the game to lock up.

I have thought back to it - and the only thing I can think that was off - is when you cut the boards (for the bridge) - you can cut more boards than you need - and it leaves two boards on the table.
But I have to imagine, others have done the same... and this bug, which is what I suspect it is, would have been found before I found it.
So I am not sure.

But when I restored your game, further before Amanda, all you had was the same stuff that I had. And yours worked when I caught up to where I was.

Which further tells me - it's definitely a very weird bug in something I'd done in my game.

So I am not sure.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:09 am

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 10:07 The pan flute thing is used to summon the flying machine to your location. That way if you leave it on one island, but end up on another using other means (e.g. the portal) you don't end up stuck. I don't think I used it on my playthrough and you don't technically need it if you complete everything you need to do and don't need to go back.

Do you? I thought I used the flying machine and went to a different island. But maybe I restored when I saw it was the island I was already on? But I thought you could just use the bird to fly back? No need for the flute thing?
Because after the lighthouse on the other side (for lack of a better word) - you pretty much have the sub. So if you sub to the bird lighthouse - then bird fly to the talkative girl island - you can just fly back from there, right, without the flute? Because I thought that's what I did. I may have just restored though. Can't remember, since it was 10 hours and 58 minutes of hell.

You can use the bird to fly back, but the second island (with the talkative girl) has a teleporter that can take you back to Earth. So you would leave the bird behind. If you through the portal on Earth, you end up back on the first island. The flute is to call the bird back if you need it. Otherwise you would be stuck. The flute isn't really necessary if you find everything you need the first time around.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:09 am

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am 56:52 My memory is fuzzy, but I don't think you need to set off the bomb. I seem to remember that during the closing sequence, the scientist just says something about hoping that no one finds the portal technology. I think there is another ending where you don't capture the Dark Being, but I forget how you do that.

I don't think the bomb is required.
I only did it because when I used the dynamite for the aforementioned rock slide.
I saw the clock, and when I couldn't use it for parts - I was like, "I bet this is part of a bomb."
I assumed, that's how you'd defeat the Dark Being - is knock him out and use the digger as a bomb.
Did not think the gun was going to suck him into a container...
Which was also odd.

If you are interested here is the ending without the bomb and here it is without capturing the Dark Being. I mentioned this in my playthrough years ago, but what threat does the Dark Being pose? He opens a portal into our world and... what? In the last clip, he just runs away when approached. Not exactly threatening.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:09 am

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am You do compliment the graphics, but to be honest, I wasn't thrilled with them. Compared to Myst, everything just looks drab and uninteresting.

Yeah, I still liked them, over all. I didn't feel like they felt... dated. Like when I look at Mask of Eternity, it feels so horribly dated to me. (Which only fuels my dislike of it, further).

That is one of the advantages of pre-rendered screens. Computers at the time couldn't make an image as detailed as the still frames in Myst or Lighthouse in real time. You can't move around in it like in MoE, but it does look better and adventure games don't need you to move around like in an action game.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:09 am

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:06 am I'm still not sure what caused your bug.

Neither am I - because, even when I restored further back in the game (still on the "digger island/volcano island") - whenever I got to the same part it'd freeze on the spin.
It even froze before that on one of my restore attempts, when turning the digger.

So something in how I did something, caused the game to lock up.

I have thought back to it - and the only thing I can think that was off - is when you cut the boards (for the bridge) - you can cut more boards than you need - and it leaves two boards on the table.
But I have to imagine, others have done the same... and this bug, which is what I suspect it is, would have been found before I found it.
So I am not sure.

But when I restored your game, further before Amanda, all you had was the same stuff that I had. And yours worked when I caught up to where I was.

Which further tells me - it's definitely a very weird bug in something I'd done in my game.

So I am not sure.

Did you buy a second rose?