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Say how did you decide the order? Did you all have a vote?
(I hope GK1 makes it to the top 10.)

BBP wrote:Say how did you decide the order? Did you all have a vote?
(I hope GK1 makes it to the top 10.)

Every staffer submitted his personal list, then Jackal compiled the final one based on our votes. When the official has been fully published, I'll post my personal Top 10

As for Sierra adventures, as some of you rightly guessed, every major series is represented in the list and the Top 20 has three Sierra games.

How many staffers are there?

For some fun discussion...

Rudy wrote: Others to still make the top 100:
- Conquests of Camelot

Not that I disagree that it should be in the top 100 - but what makes you think it should be there?

Rudy wrote: - Another Quest for Glory

I think only the first one will make it in there, personally. Or maybe QFG4.

Rudy wrote: - Lighthouse and/or Rama

See, here I'd disagree. If these make it in there, Myst should also make it in there. To me, these two games would have never existed without Myst.

Rudy wrote: - Dagger of Amon Ra

Really? Once again, this is one where I see the original being in the list, but not the sequel. I see it that way, because CB was pretty ground breaking with how it worked, and the different endings, depending on clues you found. That game was way ahead of its time.

Rudy wrote: sierra games I do NOT expect to make it:
- Codename Iceman

Now see, I think this SHOULD be there. This should go down as one of the most difficult Adventure games - ever. A challenge for even the most experienced adventure gamer.

Rudy wrote: - King's Quest 7 and 8

I could see KQ7 making it, for it's "Disney" like graphics. But I'd hope that Torin's Passage instead would be the symbol of that graphical change in games.

Datadog wrote:

Tawmis wrote:I don't see Portal as an Adventure game personal... I see it strictly as a puzzle game.

And here I was just wondering whether puzzle games and adventure games are really all that different. I've had friends who didn't know the term "adventure game" and would refer to any game from the genre as either an RPG or puzzle game. And we do talk about puzzle-solving all the time in adventures, so maybe "adventure gaming" is a sub-genre of puzzle-gaming or a hybrid of it.

See, it IS a fine line. Because is King's Quest 1 (EGA) any different than Portal? There wasn't MUCH story to either of them. (Not to say there's none, but come on, I don't care how much you love Portal, it's not much of a story). But perhaps, because in KQ1 (EGA) I felt like I could go anywhere - anytime - and I wasn't confined room to room (not able to advance to the next room in Portal, until solving the room's "puzzle") - that I feel KQ1 is an Adventure Game, and Portal is a puzzle game. There is nothing to do in Portal except solve the puzzle of each room.

Whoa - King's Quest 1 fell out of the #10 spot to #75? This is definitely a new list by a new set of people. Even Maniac Mansion has dropped out of the Top 20.

There is nothing to do in Portal except solve the puzzle of each room.

Um... spoiler, but that changes at the game's mid-point when you suddenly get free-run of the facility. Although I see what you're getting at. Exploration is what sets adventures apart from puzzle games.

Datadog wrote: Exploration is what sets adventures apart from puzzle games.

Crikey. Why couldn't I have said that so simply? Exactly what I was TRYING to say, but couldn't phrase it as easily as you did!

Tawmis wrote:

Rudy wrote: Others to still make the top 100:
- Conquests of Camelot

Not that I disagree that it should be in the top 100 - but what makes you think it should be there?

The beauty and variety of graphics, the well-balanced mix of adventure and arcade sequences, the little historical facts and legends built into the game.

Tawmis wrote:

Rudy wrote: - Another Quest for Glory

I think only the first one will make it in there, personally. Or maybe QFG4.

Here comes a personal confession. *Cough* You ready? *Cough*









I haven't played any Quest for Glory yet.

*quickly hides*

Tawmis wrote:

Rudy wrote: - Lighthouse and/or Rama

See, here I'd disagree. If these make it in there, Myst should also make it in there. To me, these two games would have never existed without Myst.

Oh, but I'm pretty sure Myst will be in the list. While Lighthouse may not have existed without Myst, I'm pretty sure Rama would. I haven't played Myst either by the way.

Tawmis wrote:

Rudy wrote: - Dagger of Amon Ra

Really? Once again, this is one where I see the original being in the list, but not the sequel. I see it that way, because CB was pretty ground breaking with how it worked, and the different endings, depending on clues you found. That game was way ahead of its time.

True about tCB. I would have liked to see it rank higher in the top 100 and higher than Dagger. Of course the top 100 is not only about Sierra games...

Tawmis wrote:

Rudy wrote: sierra games I do NOT expect to make it:
- Codename Iceman

Now see, I think this SHOULD be there. This should go down as one of the most difficult Adventure games - ever. A challenge for even the most experienced adventure gamer.

Nah... too much submarine.

Tawmis wrote:

Rudy wrote: - King's Quest 7 and 8

I could see KQ7 making it, for it's "Disney" like graphics. But I'd hope that Torin's Passage instead would be the symbol of that graphical change in games.

KQ7 broke away too much from the series with its graphics and the story of its predecessor was just far superior for KQ7 to come near the same level. Agreed on Torin's Passage.

DeadPoolX wrote:

OmerMor wrote:I think StarControl II deserves to be in the top 10.

While Star Control II is a very good game, it's not an Adventure game. There is "adventure" in it, but that could be said of nearly any game.

SC2 is about 80% adventure. It is story-driven, and it is the most epic story I've seen in a game. There's also plenty of exploration going there. Calling The 7th Guest or Portal (loved it!) an adventure game but excluding SC2 is beyond my comprehension.

BTW - Portal is indeed a puzzle game because eventually that's what you do all the time (not unlike Gobliiins), but the background story and the way it's woven into the game is remarkable. Tawmis: you should give it another chance, as the underlining story in this game reveals itself slowly.

80-71 out!

I contributed the articles about Freddy Pharkas and Shadow of the Comet!

And yes, alas KQI dropped out of Top 20.

Datadog wrote:Exploration is what sets adventures apart from puzzle games.

This is an important, even essential element, but the narrative is just if not more important. The 7th Guest has exploration, yet few would call it a true adventure. Yes, other games have stories, but most of the non-adventures use their narrative to set the stage, whereas adventures are driven by and game play further develops the narrative.

Collector wrote:

Datadog wrote:Exploration is what sets adventures apart from puzzle games.

Yes, other games have stories, but most of the non-adventures use their narrative to set the stage, whereas adventures are driven by and game play further develops the narrative.

Again - this definition fits Star Control 2. What argument can someone possibly make to convince me it's not an adventure game?

Well, Wikipedia tells me that the game is more of an hybrid, with some adventure elements and characteristics borrowed from other genres.

As such, SCII could be eligible -- after all, even QfG is somewhat of an hybrid and the same could be also be said for Dreamfall and the like.

I've never met anyone who played King's Quest, Gabriel Knight or any of those, but boy how many people in the world seemed to enjoy the Leisure Suit Larry series! Many classmates of mine played the series and I remember exchanging hints in high school. My father's numerous colleagues all helped each other out with both acquiring and playing. I made the cheeks of my ex-uncle flush red when 11-year-old BBP taught him how to do that with the prostitute in LSL1.

With the text hinting that only one per series was picked, I'm surprised LSL ends so low.

OmerMor wrote:

DeadPoolX wrote:

OmerMor wrote:I think StarControl II deserves to be in the top 10.

While Star Control II is a very good game, it's not an Adventure game. There is "adventure" in it, but that could be said of nearly any game.

SC2 is about 80% adventure. It is story-driven, and it is the most epic story I've seen in a game. There's also plenty of exploration going there. Calling The 7th Guest or Portal (loved it!) an adventure game but excluding SC2 is beyond my comprehension.

I'm not saying SCII isn't a good game; it is and I've enjoyed all of the SC games myself. However, I don't see it as an Adventure game (maybe a hybrid, like many games nowadays), as the old Sierra or LucasArts games are more what the Adventure genre is about to me.

The problem is that once you include ANY game with a good story under the heading of Adventure is that you'll have lots of titles that sort-of fit. The Deus Ex series could qualify as Adventure if your only criteria is a good story and exploration. I feel the DX games are more RPG or at least hybrid than pure Adventure.

Again, the label of Adventure is sometimes too broad. It can fit nearly any game because most games have some element of adventure to them. That doesn't mean they're part of the Adventure genre, though.

OmerMor wrote:BTW - Portal is indeed a puzzle game because eventually that's what you do all the time (not unlike Gobliiins), but the background story and the way it's woven into the game is remarkable. Tawmis: you should give it another chance, as the underlining story in this game reveals itself slowly.

I agree that Portal and Portal 2 are more Puzzle games than Adventure. I really liked them both and P2 has even more longevity due to the co-op gaming portions.

Tawmis wrote:There is nothing to do in Portal except solve the puzzle of each room.

At the beginning of the game, this is true, but that's more of a training sequence than anything else. From the middle-to-end areas of Portal, the story really picks up and the game becomes far more personable and interesting. This is doubly true for Portal 2 which improved on the original in just about every way.