SHP Forums

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:04 am At one point, you find a bottle of liquid on the Isle of Wonder that, when drunk, will make your heart temporarily stop. You use that in the presence of the genie to make him think that you've been driven to suicide.

Hmm... that's called arrhythmia, isn't it? That's a perfectly normal medical condition.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:59 pm One thing that bothers me a bit is the use of third-person narration in KQ5 and KQ6. That is, almost every line of narration will mention "Graham" or "Alexander", respectively. This just sounds so awkward compared to the "you" that's used in KQ1-4, and just about every other game (KQ7 doesn't have any narration at all). GK1 also does the third-person narration, but it uses it sparingly, since much of the narration is instead first-person (i.e. Gabriel narrating his own thought and actions).

True - although in GK1, it's usually just the narrator telling us "Gabriel picks up today's copy of the Times-Picayune" etc. That's OK.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:59 pm The unskippable Sierra logo and title screen are also annoying.

Oh? Isn't it possible to just press Esc to get out of the Sierra logo, as with other Sierra games?

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:48 pm

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:04 am At one point, you find a bottle of liquid on the Isle of Wonder that, when drunk, will make your heart temporarily stop. You use that in the presence of the genie to make him think that you've been driven to suicide.

Hmm... that's called arrhythmia, isn't it? That's a perfectly normal medical condition.

I'm not sure what your point is? People sometimes have irregular heartbeats, but that's not the same as a magic potion that stops your heart, making you seem completely dead, and then restarts it, with no adverse effects.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:59 pm The unskippable Sierra logo and title screen are also annoying.

Oh? Isn't it possible to just press Esc to get out of the Sierra logo, as with other Sierra games?

It varies across the different Sierra games. KQ5 and KQ6 (at least the versions I have installed) don't let you skip the logo or the title screen.

Save/Restore is a time travelling game mechanic to me. Not something to get me out of trouble when the game tells me I suck.

adeyke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:15 amIt varies across the different Sierra games. KQ5 and KQ6 (at least the versions I have installed) don't let you skip the logo or the title screen.

I think it's interesting that King's Quest never had a colour cycling Sierra logo.

Seems like it would be fairly trivial to make a patch with SCI Companion to skip the logo on mouse click or key press. I finally got my KQ6 decompiled source to recompile.

Indeed it would......

*adds to KQ5Fixed list*

What about hotkeys? KQ5 has tab for inventory, but not F5 for save or F7 to load (or F9 to restart, but that's less useful). I'd love for there to be fan patches that added those keys to the games missing them, or better yet, to also add in the hotkeys for switching to specific cursors, as seen in Heroine's Quest.

And for KQ5 in particular, it would be great if the various cut scenes played automatically and just had that warning pop-up show up if you pressed escape to skip it, rather than always showing up at the front of each scene.

adeyke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:15 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:48 pm

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:04 am At one point, you find a bottle of liquid on the Isle of Wonder that, when drunk, will make your heart temporarily stop. You use that in the presence of the genie to make him think that you've been driven to suicide.

Hmm... that's called arrhythmia, isn't it? That's a perfectly normal medical condition.

I'm not sure what your point is? People sometimes have irregular heartbeats, but that's not the same as a magic potion that stops your heart, making you seem completely dead, and then restarts it, with no adverse effects.

OK, sorry. I haven't seen this potion (I think?), so I misunderstood what it does - I thought that it did something similar to arrhythmia. My mistake.

More good ideas, adekye. On the list as well. Perfectly doable.

If you do get around to it I would like to add your patch to the KQ5 installer, but I would want to split it to make any game play changes optional, but the input changes I would have as part of the main installer.

KQ1: Quest for the Crown

Best: I suppose...the novelty of it all. First game of its kind. Just getting to explore colorful scenes and trying to figure it all out. Getting to compare it to the EGA remake is fun as well.
Worst: Trying to get that bird to catch you!

KQ2: Romancing the Throne

Best: Visual similarity to the first one. It's rare to have more than one game in a series with the exact same visual style, which creates a greater sense of continuity. This truly feels like a sequel for that reason.
Worst: Hunting down all the bits of jewelry.

KQ3: To Heir is Human

I haven't played this one...it's the only entry I haven't. From what I've read, I'm apprehensive to even begin!

KQ4: The Perils of Rosella

Best: So hard to choose because so much is good. The music! I still get teary listening to the introduction medley. Actually, I'll just say that pretty much everything art and sound wise is spectacular. Plus it has a great story.
Worst: Besides the obvious ones (troll, hidden bridle) I'm going to go with the ogre randomly appearing. Never knowing when he's going to turn up bugs me to no end.

KQ5: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder

Best: The diversity of locations. The meadows, the desert, the mountains, the ice palace, the beach, the dark island...all the locations are so exotic and so beautifully painted. It's a beautiful world to keep revisiting.
Worst: Avoiding that blue monster in Mordack's castle. Ugh, I hate that thing!

KQ6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow

Best: Can I say nearly everything? I feel this one's got it all: great story, great music, great artwork, great locations...practically perfect.
Worst: Girl in the Tower. Hear me out on this one! I love the melody, but I'm not crazy about either the lyrics or the singers. It's just a bit...too much for me. Some of the voice acting (especially the narrator) sets my teeth on edge as well. For these reasons, I'm partial to the floppy disk release. No voices, and the instrumental version of the song. It's just my preference.

KQ7: The Princeless Bride

Best: The originality. I know some view it as just a Disney rip-off, but I feel it has one of the most original storylines out of any of them. Vivid, colorful characters, vibrant locales, and a very touching story. Like its predecessor, I think it strikes a good balance at telling an engaging story in a unique way, if more simplified. I also love the voice acting.
Worst: There's definitely a "first time at bat" feel here. As others have said, the animations sometimes lack consistency. The changing facial shapes, the varying clothing lengths, and the sometimes choppy transitions do mar the experience a bit. Rosella's walk cycle is one of the biggest offenders. Why they didn't go for the original side and front diagonal views is beyond me - those actually match her standing positions! But for a first attempt at a game of this scope, it's a pretty impressive feat. It's a shame there wasn't more time to iron out some of the kinks.

KQ8: Mask of Eternity

I've only played bits and pieces of this one. From what I remember, I liked the darker edge to the story but disliked the combat. I wasn't into combat games at all when I first started this, so I'll have to look at it again now that I'm more used to them.

Semi-Happy Partygoer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:53 am KQ1: Quest for the Crown
Worst: Trying to get that bird to catch you!

Ah, yes. The infamous "Jump"... "Damn it!"... "Jump"... "Damn it!"

Semi-Happy Partygoer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:53 am KQ3: To Heir is Human
I haven't played this one...it's the only entry I haven't. From what I've read, I'm apprehensive to even begin!

Despite my hatred of Manhanananana - I strongly recommend this one.

Semi-Happy Partygoer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:53 am KQ4: The Perils of Rosella
Worst: Besides the obvious ones (troll, hidden bridle) I'm going to go with the ogre randomly appearing. Never knowing when he's going to turn up bugs me to no end.

Is it an Ogre? The giant right? With the goose? Roaming randomly outside his house?

Semi-Happy Partygoer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:53 am KQ5: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder
Worst: Avoiding that blue monster in Mordack's castle. Ugh, I hate that thing!

Isn't there a way of defeating him... if it's what I think it is?

Semi-Happy Partygoer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:53 am KQ6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Worst: Girl in the Tower. Hear me out on this one! I love the melody, but I'm not crazy about either the lyrics or the singers. It's just a bit...too much for me. Some of the voice acting (especially the narrator) sets my teeth on edge as well. For these reasons, I'm partial to the floppy disk release. No voices, and the instrumental version of the song. It's just my preference.

And yet you didn't complain about Cedric?

The being in KQ4 who has the golden-egg-laying fowl is, indeed, an ogre. Also, it's a hen, not a goose.

To be honest, I find all those random encounters in KQ pretty terrible. If you're unlucky, it's just a random death. The way to escape them is just to stroll off-screen, but the screen boundaries are just from how the game presents the world; they aren't part of the world itself.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:28 am The being in KQ4 who has the golden-egg-laying fowl is, indeed, an ogre. Also, it's a hen, not a goose.

I meant to say Hen... I think I was thinking Golden Goose.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:28 am To be honest, I find all those random encounters in KQ pretty terrible. If you're unlucky, it's just a random death. The way to escape them is just to stroll off-screen, but the screen boundaries are just from how the game presents the world; they aren't part of the world itself.

I think some random encounters are good. It shows that the world isn't "static" if random events can still happen. Granted it doesn't mean things like Ogres, but like the Minstrel appearing randomly on the tree stump. But then in a world like King's Quest IV, there Ogre is in his house - stands to reason he'd also be roaming around (and at least where he roams is just one screen, just outside his house). The down side to the random encounters that are not "potentially" death and actual part of the quests (like the Minstrel, or that damn Eagle in King's Quest III) is that trying to get those things appear can be a pain in the rump.

If it's random whether an enemy is on the screen or not, what you'd do is just immediately step back across the screen boundary to escape. Then, since you presumably had some reason to be on that screen, you'll head right back. This is just absurd gameplay.

And if the enemy can appear while you're already in the screen, you need to stay near the screen boundary in order to be able to quickly escape should that happen (e.g. if you're going from west to east, stay near the north or south edge).

To be fair to the ogre, he actually do follow you across one boundary: he can appear outside his house or to the south of it, and if you move between those two screens, he'll keep chasing you. To be accurate, this doesn't always work as intended. If you run away from him on the house screen by heading south, he'll appear on that next screen in front of you rather than behind and instantly catch you.

I'd much prefer if the randomness were removed. One possibility would be to have some sort of patrol pattern and let you see them from a distance, allowing you to sneak past when they're not looking. Another possibility is have the chase be a puzzle of some sort, where you're able to get them to follow you but then lose track of you, so you can double back while they're trying to figure out where you went. Another is to have the enemy move based on game events (e.g. have the ogre be just outside his house initially, but then at some point have him go south a screen, which thus allows Rosella to get into the house).

As for non-enemies, I suppose it can make it feel less static, but there are issues with it. If you enter a screen and don't see anything significant, you might never check back to see if anything has changed. And if you are aware that there's just a random chance of it happening, then you'd be encouraged to do the screen boundary dance until it happens. What would help there is if the characters just actually moved in real time. Don't just give the illusion of a non-static world; actually make the world non-static.

But I really do think that situations where crossing that imaginary line has a significant effect on the world should be avoided.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pm If it's random whether an enemy is on the screen or not, what you'd do is just immediately step back across the screen boundary to escape. Then, since you presumably had some reason to be on that screen, you'll head right back. This is just absurd gameplay.

But the flip side of that is - you have the cave troll under the waterfall that will chase you through every screen (except the entrance/exit screen).

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pm To be fair to the ogre, he actually do follow you across one boundary: he can appear outside his house or to the south of it, and if you move between those two screens, he'll keep chasing you. To be accurate, this doesn't always work as intended. If you run away from him on the house screen by heading south, he'll appear on that next screen in front of you rather than behind and instantly catch you.

He's a smart Ogre like that. I think you can successfully dodge him the "haunted forest" (for lack of a better word), if you use the axe.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pm I'd much prefer if the randomness were removed. One possibility would be to have some sort of patrol pattern and let you see them from a distance, allowing you to sneak past when they're not looking. Another possibility is have the chase be a puzzle of some sort, where you're able to get them to follow you but then lose track of you, so you can double back while they're trying to figure out where you went. Another is to have the enemy move based on game events (e.g. have the ogre be just outside his house initially, but then at some point have him go south a screen, which thus allows Rosella to get into the house).

I'd be all for making the randomness being controlled (but still appear random). I mean, ideally, seeing them from one screen over to know they're there would be ideal, but with the limits of AGI/SCI, that's not (as far as I know), possible.

I do like the idea of puzzle controlled randomness. Like the ogre will remain outside his house, every time, as long as you have not completed XYZ (which is another thing; like when you solve one of the other puzzles, that sets the trigger to stop the ogre from wandering around outside). That kind of logic I could go for, because it still creates the illusion of randomness.

adeyke wrote: ↑Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pm As for non-enemies, I suppose it can make it feel less static, but there are issues with it. If you enter a screen and don't see anything significant, you might never check back to see if anything has changed. And if you are aware that there's just a random chance of it happening, then you'd be encouraged to do the screen boundary dance until it happens.

Oh, yeah - no I was saying I am not a fan of the "random" encounters when it comes to requiring an item from them (the eagle drops the feather, in KQIII for example). Because the game can hold you up waiting for that random drop. For example my struggles trying to get the feather in KQ3.