SHP Forums

Just watched the video:

First of all, I am at a loss as to why you didn't get the good ending. You did everything and Marie's reaction when she got the locket is what is supposed to happen when you get the good ending. I'm really stumped.

One thing I liked about PQ2 was the connections it had to PQ1. Many of the officers return in PQ2 with some being promoted to new roles. Everyone in PQ3 is new. Why couldn't the homicide captain be the same one from PQ2?

I think I mentioned this before, but what happens to Sonny badge is very similar to the story behind the badge you find in PQ2.

One thing I noticed in your playthrough was that after the park arrest, you are supposed to meet Morales about a ticket that a pregnant woman refuses to sign. I didn't see it in either video and it looks like there was a cut. Did you not do this or leave it out of your video? This is right before you start giving out tickets on the highway.

11:30 Thanks for the shout out.

13:16 I actually got pulled over a few weeks ago for a busted brake light. The officer actually spoke to me through the passenger side.

I never encountered that spinning Sonny bug at the coroner's office.

The game says that Bains is a Gunnery Sergeant in the Army, but Gunnery Sergeant is a Marine Corps rank.

The first time I played through, I missed all of the things to implicate Morales. The Internal Affairs detective still saves you and says "We've been watching her a while."

I liked how the computer files update when you book evidence. Since you can book them under different case numbers, the file will update accordingly. It's a nice detail.

With all this discussion about the game, I'm starting to realize how buggy it can be. It also has a few questionable design decisions. Driving is a pain. They probably could have used the PQ1 remake design. I still don't understand the Morales thing. Sonny really has no reason to suspect her for anything and had no reason to take her keys to be copied. She's a not very good cop as far as he is concerned. It's a big leap to go from that to might-be-involved-with-the-cult. Maybe if his suspicions started with the missing bag of drugs (which is also correctly reflected in the computer case file) and went from there it might have worked better. Otherwise it feels unnatural. Like the only reason you are investigating her is because you know how the story ends.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm Just watched the video:

Thank you!

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm First of all, I am at a loss as to why you didn't get the good ending. You did everything and Marie's reaction when she got the locket is what is supposed to happen when you get the good ending. I'm really stumped.

Yeah. I am sure it's a weird trigger that needs to happen - which....

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm One thing I noticed in your playthrough was that after the park arrest, you are supposed to meet Morales about a ticket that a pregnant woman refuses to sign. I didn't see it in either video and it looks like there was a cut. Did you not do this or leave it out of your video? This is right before you start giving out tickets on the highway.

... so I had done this. But looking at my recordings - I see what happened. As I mentioned, there was a portion I forgot to RECORD the game, so I restored back - and played and recorded. I was supposed to meet Pat about the woman, but didn't do it that time. I'd done during the time I'd forgotten to record. So when I restored - I thought that was part of the recorded footage.

That may be, one of the random "hidden" triggers to get the good ending, perhaps. Illogical. But... whatever.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm One thing I liked about PQ2 was the connections it had to PQ1. Many of the officers return in PQ2 with some being promoted to new roles. Everyone in PQ3 is new. Why couldn't the homicide captain be the same one from PQ2?

Is it not the same captain in PQ2 to PQ3?

Also, Sonny does move into a new division, right? Might explain the new people?

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm 11:30 Thanks for the shout out.

Hahah! I like to make references where I can when I ramble.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm 13:16 I actually got pulled over a few weeks ago for a busted brake light. The officer actually spoke to me through the passenger side.

Oh, they've done that with me as well. Makes it more difficult, if you happen to have ill intentions to jump out of your car and fire - and the officer can observe you where it's not easy to inflict wounds.

But what's weird is you don't do that in PQ3 - you on the passenger side - and then proceed to walk IN FRONT of the car - to approach the driver's side from IN FRONT of the car which seems VERY dangerous if the person in the car, as Rath said (and I think I said in the video) decides they want to bolt and run you over.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm The game says that Bains is a Gunnery Sergeant in the Army, but Gunnery Sergeant is a Marine Corps rank.

I didn't even know that.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm With all this discussion about the game, I'm starting to realize how buggy it can be. It also has a few questionable design decisions. Driving is a pain. They probably could have used the PQ1 remake design. I still don't understand the Morales thing. Sonny really has no reason to suspect her for anything and had no reason to take her keys to be copied. She's a not very good cop as far as he is concerned. It's a big leap to go from that to might-be-involved-with-the-cult. Maybe if his suspicions started with the missing bag of drugs (which is also correctly reflected in the computer case file) and went from there it might have worked better. Otherwise it feels unnatural. Like the only reason you are investigating her is because you know how the story ends.

I am wondering if the game suffered; because it started with Jim Walls writing it - he would depart and go to Tsunami - and PQ3 would be finished by Jane Jensen (who had the writing credit at the end) - and knowing Jane was behind PQ3, certainly explains the more "supernatural'esque" feel with the cult and pentagram bit. (As I said somewhere on this forum - PQ3 has always reminded me of the movie First Power but obviously without the over the top supernatural things that happen in the movie).

I feel like both this game, suffered (seems like some things were started, and then loosely connected by a new writer coming in) similar to SQ6.

Hmm ...

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm I think I mentioned this before, but what happens to Sonny badge is very similar to the story behind the badge you find in PQ2.

Now I'm curious. Sonny loses his badge in this game, another police officer loses his badge in PQ2. Is it so easy (in real life) for criminals to steal police badges, or detach them from the uniform? I wouldn't have thought so.

Also, throughout the PQ games, can Sonny (or anyone else) turn in their badge and go solo (aka Dirty Harry etc.)? "You're a disgrace to the uniform! Turn in your badge!" And so on?

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm 13:16 I actually got pulled over a few weeks ago for a busted brake light. The officer actually spoke to me through the passenger side.

Huh, interesting. I was once pulled over because, after turning right, I accidentally left on my turning signal for too long. (I had it on for, perhaps, 5 seconds after turning). The police officer spoke to me through the driver's-side window.

I knew it was against the rules, but I had no idea they'd pull me over for it. I was also in a rush to get to the train station and go to work, so this obviously made me more stressed out.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm The game says that Bains is a Gunnery Sergeant in the Army, but Gunnery Sergeant is a Marine Corps rank.

Like Tawm, I didn't know this (but then, I was never in the armed forces). How do you know this, NBS? Just curious.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm With all this discussion about the game, I'm starting to realize how buggy it can be. It also has a few questionable design decisions. Driving is a pain. They probably could have used the PQ1 remake design. I still don't understand the Morales thing. Sonny really has no reason to suspect her for anything and had no reason to take her keys to be copied. She's a not very good cop as far as he is concerned. It's a big leap to go from that to might-be-involved-with-the-cult. Maybe if his suspicions started with the missing bag of drugs (which is also correctly reflected in the computer case file) and went from there it might have worked better. Otherwise it feels unnatural. Like the only reason you are investigating her is because you know how the story ends.

You're right, NBH. I never suspected Morales until the end of PQ3. Before that, it was odd - Morales was surly, uncooperative and aggressive, but I wouldn't have pegged her to be involved with a cult.

Tawm has a good point about the story being written by two people - Jim Walls and Jane Jensen. Jane is a fine writer of the supernatural, but I'd argue that PQ3 is possibly the weakest entry in the PQ series - possibly because Jane was brought in halfway through, possibly because Jane may not have been given enough time. (I've no idea where, in the story, Jane started writing this, but it's probable that she wrote the "body in the dumpster" scene, because of all the blood and gore - it's reminiscent of the body-by-the-lake scene in GK1. The pentagram-in-the-computer scene and the cult scenes are also very Jane-esque; the former is reminiscent of the SIDNEY scenes in GK3, and the latter is reminiscent of the "voodoo in the bayou" scene in GK1).

Please note that PQ3 came out in October 1991, and GK1 in December 1993. So Jane would've had 2 years and a bit after PQ3 to perfect GK1. At the time of PQ3, I don't think Jane had written a full game for Sierra -- though I might be wrong.

What do you think?

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Now I'm curious. Sonny loses his badge in this game, another police officer loses his badge in PQ2. Is it so easy (in real life) for criminals to steal police badges, or detach them from the uniform? I wouldn't have thought so.

No. That will get you either shot or arrested (at the VERY least, arrested for "assaulting an officer" even if all you did was manage to get his badge and throw it - you laid hands on the officer to do so).

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Also, throughout the PQ games, can Sonny (or anyone else) turn in their badge and go solo (aka Dirty Harry etc.)? "You're a disgrace to the uniform! Turn in your badge!" And so on?

Yes. I do it in PQ3 (on accident) when I gunned down the cultist in the pool hall before he draws his gun.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am You're right, NBH. I never suspected Morales until the end of PQ3. Before that, it was odd - Morales was surly, uncooperative and aggressive, but I wouldn't have pegged her to be involved with a cult.

The problem is how quickly Sonny escalates. Yes, Pat is obviously abrasive (you get the report on her, then see it again with the pregnant woman in the car).
Now - what's odd, especially for if Sonny were real - when Pat gets assigned as his partner, she ceases being abrasive and even says, "I am a good person once you get to know me."
And it certainly SEEMS that way. Like, there is NO reason to suspect Pat at that point - and it becomes very easy to believe that - as a female cop, maybe she's struggling (as she said).
So for Sonny to get a copy of her keys (creepy!), and then read her profile on the therapist's table (invasion of utter privacy of the patient privilege privacy) - it's actually Sonny, who quickly begins acting out of line (based on the information Sonny has).

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Tawm has a good point about the story being written by two people - Jim Walls and Jane Jensen. Jane is a fine writer of the supernatural, but I'd argue that PQ3 is possibly the weakest entry in the PQ series

Which is funny, because once you get past day 1, I think I still feel it's my favorite of the PQ series.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:02 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Now I'm curious. Sonny loses his badge in this game, another police officer loses his badge in PQ2. Is it so easy (in real life) for criminals to steal police badges, or detach them from the uniform? I wouldn't have thought so.

No. That will get you either shot or arrested (at the VERY least, arrested for "assaulting an officer" even if all you did was manage to get his badge and throw it - you laid hands on the officer to do so).

Yes, I thought so. Obviously, I would never try to do that in real life. So it's amazing how easily people do that to Sonny and other officers in PQ.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:02 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Also, throughout the PQ games, can Sonny (or anyone else) turn in their badge and go solo (aka Dirty Harry etc.)? "You're a disgrace to the uniform! Turn in your badge!" And so on?

Yes. I do it in PQ3 (on accident) when I gunned down the cultist in the pool hall before he draws his gun.

Er, no ... I mean something that doesn't result in an instant "Game Over". Is it possible for anyone to be kicked off the force, but the game continues?

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:02 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Tawm has a good point about the story being written by two people - Jim Walls and Jane Jensen. Jane is a fine writer of the supernatural, but I'd argue that PQ3 is possibly the weakest entry in the PQ series

Which is funny, because once you get past day 1, I think I still feel it's my favorite of the PQ series.

Oh, well. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

PQ1 is possibly the simplest game. But the "cult" angle of PQ3 struck me as a bit melodramatic ... I mean, you start off (in day 1) doing routine police work, and then the cult angle almost comes out of nowhere. *shrug*

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:17 pm Er, no ... I mean something that doesn't result in an instant "Game Over". Is it possible for anyone to be kicked off the force, but the game continues?

No.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:17 pm

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:02 am

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am Tawm has a good point about the story being written by two people - Jim Walls and Jane Jensen. Jane is a fine writer of the supernatural, but I'd argue that PQ3 is possibly the weakest entry in the PQ series

Which is funny, because once you get past day 1, I think I still feel it's my favorite of the PQ series.

Oh, well. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.
PQ1 is possibly the simplest game. But the "cult" angle of PQ3 struck me as a bit melodramatic ... I mean, you start off (in day 1) doing routine police work, and then the cult angle almost comes out of nowhere. *shrug*

Jane Jensen influence, no doubt.
Now, I do agree that the cult thing does come out of the blue. Although there's clear references in victims, as well as police reports, and speaking to various officers, about cult activity.
They/she were probably pulling from the "Satanic Panic" This led to things like D&D is Satanic and heavy metal is Satanic. So it was really big mid, to late 80s - and spread even more in the 90s.

Now, something I think that might have been useful - is when you take the photo to the Army Recruiter, that there's a note in Michael's file that after Jessie's death, he'd become obsessed with the occult.
And then when you look at Pat's file, the therapist noting that Pat seems to have an unusual interest in the cult murders.

Both of which elude to why Michael would be using cult style murder; and why Pat is interested (so she can destroy evidence/warn Michael).

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:27 am

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:48 pm The game says that Bains is a Gunnery Sergeant in the Army, but Gunnery Sergeant is a Marine Corps rank.

Like Tawm, I didn't know this (but then, I was never in the armed forces). How do you know this, NBS? Just curious.

I don't have any military background either, personally or family. It's mostly just seeing things in movies (e.g. Full Metal Jacket) and TV and being curious. Google and Wikipedia makes researching these things easy. Army and Marine officer ranks are the same. Enlisted ranks are pretty similar, but the Marines have a rank called Gunnery Sergeant (or "Gunny" if he lets you call him that) and the Army does not. I guess the equivalent rank in the army is Sergeant First Class. The Marines seem to revere Gunnys, but I'm not sure why since there are a few higher grades above the rank. Maybe the higher grades don't interact with the junior enlisted ranks as much? I'm not sure.

Hmm, OK. I wouldn't even have known to look up stuff like this on Google, since I wouldn't think PQ3 was wrong. (I simply wouldn't know enough to question it). I have written various stories set in ancient times (e.g. Roman Empire and prior), so I did my research on military grades and units, and what various non-officer people (especially sergeants and corporals) do.

Hmm... Army and Marine officer ranks are the same - except the Army also has a rank called "General of the Army" (aka 5-star general). However, there hasn't been one of those since Omar Bradley (in September 1950).

Gunnery Sergeants usually lead at the Company level, advising Captains on material and personnel readiness. They also manage firepower and logistics, i.e. preparing supplies and equipment for the enlisted men in the Marines. (From google and wiki). Obviously this is vital -- you can't send men into battle without weapons, uniforms, medical supplies or food and drink! But there are many historical examples of what happens when logistics fails, and they usually end in disaster.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:48 am Hmm... Army and Marine officer ranks are the same - except the Army also has a rank called "General of the Army" (aka 5-star general). However, there hasn't been one of those since Omar Bradley (in September 1950).

Not only that, it was only during WWII that a Marine general could become a 4-star general. The marines have always been the smallest branch of the military, so up until then the commandant held a lower rank than what was possible in the army, e.g. a 2-star (Major General) from 1891-1936.

And John J. Pershing held the rank of General of the Armies which would have been superior to the 5-star general. Sometimes called a 6-star general, a rank insignia was never created and Pershing never wore more than 4 stars.

OK. Pershing, from what I know, commanded the US Army during America's involvement in World War 1. Is that right?

Also, weren't other people were nominated for the same 6-star general rank? I think Grant, Sherman and Sheridan definitely were, as well as George Marshall, Douglas Macarthur, and Washington.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:21 am OK. Pershing, from what I know, commanded the US Army during America's involvement in World War 1. Is that right?

That's right.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:21 am Also, weren't other people were nominated for the same 6-star general rank? I think Grant, Sherman and Sheridan definitely were, as well as George Marshall, Douglas Macarthur, and Washington.

My only knowledge of this is from the Wikipedia article, so it looks like yes. George Washington was appointed one in 1976 because when he was alive, he was only a lieutenant general, it it was felt that no one should outrank him. The others you mentioned were considered for the rank at various times.

Eureka! I did my own playthrough and I found the cause of the mystery bad ending. Believe it or not, it is the second rose on Day 4. I've posted the save files here so maybe someone with the know-how can dissect them. So first I played the way I normally do and got the good ending and then restored to "Day 4 - Hospital" and got a second rose, like you did, Tawmis. Sure enough, this gave the bad ending.

This is a really odd bug. I wonder if there is some sort of counter that keeps track of the things you are supposed to do (i.e. music box, locket, etc.) and then there's a bit of code that goes something like:
Only when you get a second rose, the counter is too high.

Just a theory.

That makes sense, that there's a timer. Maybe when I got the 2nd Rose, it reset the Rose timer to being "a day late" and ignored the previous rose.

Would have been nice to know this a few years ago:

http://sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3991

"Still have no clue. If it helps, I bought "additional" roses on everyday. Maybe that was the bug?"

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:06 pm Would have been nice to know this a few years ago:

http://sierrahelp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3991

"Still have no clue. If it helps, I bought "additional" roses on everyday. Maybe that was the bug?"

Well, we can confirm that now.