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Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:33 pm**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:15 pm Ooh! Mirror images - 1d4 + 1 mirror images for each level (up to 8) of her materialize and start to fight the illithid. That's clever.

I hope she managed to escape quickly, though. the blink effect only lasts one turn (about 10 minutes), right? Also, illithid aren't stupid. I presume their psionic abilities wouldn't do anything to the mirror images (because mirror images have no brains of their own). Sooner or later, some illithid would notice they're being fooled.

Yeah Mirror Image works that if you're hit (which is already difficult with blinking), there's a chance it hits the mirror image instead of you.

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 am**

OK. So if the illthid strikes a Mirror Image with a psionic attack (and tries to feed on its brain, a usual procedure for them), would it succeed? I thought Mirror Images had no brains; they're just a simulacrum of you.

So if the illithid succeeds, and finds no brain, wouldn't it become suspicious?

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:36 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:08 am OK. So if the illthid strikes a Mirror Image with a psionic attack (and tries to feed on its brain, a usual procedure for them), would it succeed? I thought Mirror Images had no brains; they're just a simulacrum of you.

So if the illithid succeeds, and finds no brain, wouldn't it become suspicious?

Yes. And upon being hit, that mirror image breaks/ceases to exist.

So imagine blinking (making it difficult to hit you already), adding three Mirror Images (which means if they do hit, they probably hit the Mirror Image) - as you're running away.

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:27 am**

I can imagine. Maddie blinks out of existence (and runs away) -- brilliant. So much better than being caught by illithids. *shudder*

I've done quite a lot of reading on mind flayers this afternoon. It's interesting, but none of the material I saw mentioned that ... well, it seems to me that Lovecraft's Cthulhu stories is the clear inspiration for these guys. Am I right?

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:57 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:27 am I've done quite a lot of reading on mind flayers this afternoon. It's interesting, but none of the material I saw mentioned that ... well, it seems to me that Lovecraft's Cthulhu stories is the clear inspiration for these guys. Am I right?

Undoubtedly influenced the creation of the Illithid.

Fun fact for you about Cthulhu you may or may not know...

Rather than type it - lemme google and copy and pasta...

The first version of Deities & Demigods caused a considerable amount of trouble for TSR. This was a book that discussed the rules concerning godhood in your average Dungeons & Dragons campaign. The rules also gave stats for the gods, so that they could present the most challenging battles of all for high-level players.

The pantheons featured in Deities & Demigods mostly consisted of gods from real-world mythology. The exceptions to this were two fictional pantheons from famous novels: the Cthulhu Mythos from the works of H.P. Lovecraft, and the Melnibonean gods from the works of Michael Moorcock.

Michael Moorcock had given TSR permission to use the gods from the Elric series in their books, but he didn't realize that the rights were already owned by Chaosium, who was a rival publisher. An agreement was reached where the Melnibonean gods could appear, but Chaosium had to be credited in the book.

The other fictional pantheon that appeared in the original version of Deities & Demigods was the Cthulhu Mythos. These are the apocalyptic gods that are worshipped by mad cultists in the many horror stories created by H.P. Lovecraft.

The reason TSR included the evil Lovecraftian gods in Deities & Demigods was that they believed that all of Lovecraft's work had entered the public domain, as he had died over fifty years before the publication of the book.

The people at TSR were unaware that Chaosium also owned the license to Lovecraft's work. The two companies reached an agreement where the Cthulhu/Melibonean gods could be featured if Chaosium were credited.

TSR weren't keen on promoting one of their biggest competitors in their products. This led to a second printing of Deities & Demigods which removed the Chaosium-owned properties.

More here: https://screenrant.com/dungeons-and-dra ... oyed-game/

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:08 pm**

Hmm, I've heard of Michael Moorcock's connection to TSR, but didn't know about that. Thanks, Tawm.

As for this ...

The Mind Flayer Murders

In 1987, a young man named Daniel Kasten killed his adoptive parents over fears that they would disown him due to his poor grades in college. The original report on the murder claimed that Kasten believed that he wasn't loved by his parents, which contributed to his motive for the crime.

Daniel Kasten's defense attorney would try a different tactic in order to absolve him of criminal responsibility. Daniel claimed during the trial that he was influenced by a being known as Lord Derelith, who was a creature from a Dungeons & Dragons game that he had played in. Lord Derelith was an illithid, which is a kind of squid-headed humanoid that possesses powerful telepathic abilities.

The attempt to blame Daniel's crimes on delusions inspired by Dungeons & Dragons was unsuccessful and did not affect the verdict at his trial.

... ohhh, boy.

Yet another smart-mouth lawyer who tries to connect real-life murder to D&D. What's the bet that Mr. Kasten never played D&D in his life, but the lawyer lied about it to make D&D (and TSR) look bad?

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:54 pm**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:08 pm Hmm, I've heard of Michael Moorcock's connection to TSR, but didn't know about that. Thanks, Tawm.
As for this ...
The Mind Flayer Murders
In 1987, a young man named Daniel Kasten killed his adoptive parents over fears that they would disown him due to his poor grades in college. The original report on the murder claimed that Kasten believed that he wasn't loved by his parents, which contributed to his motive for the crime.
Daniel Kasten's defense attorney would try a different tactic in order to absolve him of criminal responsibility. Daniel claimed during the trial that he was influenced by a being known as Lord Derelith, who was a creature from a Dungeons & Dragons game that he had played in. Lord Derelith was an illithid, which is a kind of squid-headed humanoid that possesses powerful telepathic abilities.
The attempt to blame Daniel's crimes on delusions inspired by Dungeons & Dragons was unsuccessful and did not affect the verdict at his trial.
... ohhh, boy. Yet another smart-mouth lawyer who tries to connect real-life murder to D&D. What's the bet that Mr. Kasten never played D&D in his life, but the lawyer lied about it to make D&D (and TSR) look bad?

Yeah; back then it was easy to try and blame D&D or heavy metal for things. Funny thing is - I am not a know it all - but I've been playing D&D since 1980 - so I am proud of what I know about D&D...
And I don't think I've ever heard of Lord Derelith... unless this "Lord Derelith" was the person's character... which would be odd, because Illithid/Mind Flayers were not a race players were usually able to play (natural DMs can allow whatever they want in their game to be able to be playable or maybe this person was a DM who created "Lord Derelith" for their game)... regardless, weak sauce.

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:43 pm**

I love that expression, "weak sauce".

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I can only assume that the lawyer may have read about August Derleth (the man who first published the writings of H. P. Lovecraft), and got confused. *shrug* Derleth, Derelith? Cthulhu, Mind Flayers? Maybe? Close, but probably no cigar.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:35 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:43 pm I love that expression, "weak sauce".
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I can only assume that the lawyer may have read about August Derleth (the man who first published the writings of H. P. Lovecraft), and got confused. *shrug* Derleth, Derelith? Cthulhu, Mind Flayers? Maybe? Close, but probably no cigar.

That's what I assumed (August Derleth) for the name.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:05 pm**

Hmm ... I've had another idea for my story, but I thought I'd run it by you:

For the purposes of the story, my LN Sphinx has to shapechange into a human, so she can go into a nearby town, do some research, talk to priests etc. (Obviously that would draw attention, but oh well).

I looked into the MM, and Sphinxes there can't shapechange. However, everyone else that can are either an evil of some kind, or at best true neutral. Only one monster (the Weretiger) is Neutral Good.

Is there something evil or chaotic about shape-changing in D&D? I'm confused.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:13 pm**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:05 pm Hmm ... I've had another idea for my story, but I thought I'd run it by you:
For the purposes of the story, my LN Sphinx has to shapechange into a human, so she can go into a nearby town, do some research, talk to priests etc. (Obviously that would draw attention, but oh well).
I looked into the MM, and Sphinxes there can't shapechange. However, everyone else that can are either an evil of some kind, or at best true neutral. Only one monster (the Weretiger) is Neutral Good.
Is there something evil or chaotic about shape-changing in D&D? I'm confused.

Not sure where you looked, but the biggest shape changer in D&D is the Doppelganger, which is Neutral.
I am assuming you're not looking at 5e books - because a Weretiger is also shown as Neutral.

But there's no reason a Sphinx wouldn't know Magic and be able to use the Polymorph Self spell. Or however you want to phrase it for a story, it's even easier. Just say he/she changes their form.

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:05 am**

Oops! You're right -- I was confused. Weretigers are Neutral; Werewolves are CE, Wererats are LE, and Wereboars are NE. It's the Were-BEARS that are NG.

(Though I must say this: the MM description of Werebears as "powerful loners ... [who] act as wardens over their territory, protecting flora and fauna alike from humanoid or monstrous intrusion" reminds me instantly of Beorn from "The Hobbit". Don't you think so?

I've heard of such things as Weresharks, Weredinosaurs and Weredragons, but it feels a bit ridiculous to me ...

Yep, a Sphinx already knows some Magic (e.g. Time Manipulation) -- so she could easily use the Polymorph Self spell. Maybe she can also use Polymorph Other? Or is that spell too "evil" (because I'm associating it with turning mice into coachmen or dragons into beetles, that sort of thing)?

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:21 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:05 am Oops! You're right -- I was confused. Weretigers are Neutral; Werewolves are CE, Wererats are LE, and Wereboars are NE. It's the Were-BEARS that are NG. (Though I must say this: the MM description of Werebears as "powerful loners ... [who] act as wardens over their territory, protecting flora and fauna alike from humanoid or monstrous intrusion" reminds me instantly of Beorn from "The Hobbit". Don't you think so?
I've heard of such things as Weresharks, Weredinosaurs and Weredragons, but it feels a bit ridiculous to me ...
Yep, a Sphinx already knows some Magic (e.g. Time Manipulation) -- so she could easily use the Polymorph Self spell. Maybe she can also use Polymorph Other? Or is that spell too "evil" (because I'm associating it with turning mice into coachmen or dragons into beetles, that sort of thing)?

I actually liked when they did weresharks - because that could make for a fun mystery on a boat. Sailors and pirates and even fishermen who get this form of lycanthorpy, to me is a fun idea. I'd never heard of Weredino or weredragons.

As for the werebear, I just got the "don't mess with a momma bear" vibe as to that description.

And if you're following D&D rules (which you wouldn't need to for the sake of a story), turning mice into coachmen would be easy; dragons into beetles would be significantly more difficult due to Savings Throws a dragon would make against the spell.

Also if you follow D&D rules (which again, for a story, why would you), the spell only lasts for a maximum of 1 hour, and requires concentration (which means you can't cast any other spell that requires Concentration, and any time you take damage - no matter how insignificant - you have to make a Concentration Check to retain your Concentration, otherwise the spell ends)...

Polymorph
4th transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V S M (A caterpillar cocoon)
Duration: Up to 1 hour
Classes: Bard, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard
This spell transforms a creature that you can see within range into a new form. An unwilling creature must make a Wisdom saving throw to avoid the effect. The spell has no effect on a shapechanger or a creature with 0 hit points.
The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level, if it doesn’t have a challenge rating). The target’s game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality.
The target assumes the hit points of its new form. When it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn’t reduce the creature’s normal form to 0 hit points, it isn’t knocked unconscious.
The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech.
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment.

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:47 am**

Well ....... if the Sphinx polymorphs herself, having just one hour to find what she needs at a Temple/Library/what have you would add an extra challenge!

As in, "I must find the clue, but I have no idea where it is -- and on top of that, this pesky human guard keeps leering and telling me that he likes a girl with spirit. Stupid human! I'm not carrying spirits!"

One hour might not be enough (and libraries didn't ever exist in Rome, except in rich people's homes -- and possibly the Senate's admin block), but it's possible a scroll may be found in a temple. Trouble is, which temple? Which scroll? And the clock is ticking ...

I'm being too harsh on my poor Sphinx. She should have a clue of where to look. I'd like her to find a bit of a prophecy on how a sphinx may be killed: "Only the sword of a gladiator, bathed in his own blood, can kill a sphinx." (There's a very old superstition that a gladiator's blood had curative powers, so why not magical powers?)

So -- a clue on where to find this. I don't think there were temples specifically for gladiators, but the Temple of Mithras was dedicated to soldiers. Women were not allowed. The clue could be ... *thinks*

Devote your time unto this place:
For warriors seek here a god's grace.
A clue ye seek, how Sphinxes may be killed;
But first, the augur's belly must be filled.

Solution: she finds what the priest like to eat and buys it at the market for him (all the time being harassed by soldiers and others). The priest is grateful, so he goes and looks it up for the Sphinx-disguised-as-a-woman. Just as she thanks him, she can fill the spell end ...

And she turns back into a Sphinx and flies away. The priest chalks it up as a good omen, but others are not so convinced and chase after her, firing arrows and such! Must escape!

How does that sound?

Posted: **Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:50 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:47 am How does that sound?

Your story! Run wild with it.

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