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Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:14 am**

Anyone else watched/watching Andor?

I watched the first three episodes they released on day 1.... and barely made it.

Everyone at work talks about how it gets better.

I am on Episode 8 or 9, and I feel like they've punked me.

Because it's not gotten better.

I've literally only cared about one character; and they killed him by crushing him (won't say who it is, to avoid spoilers; but it happens in the same scene, so when you see it you will know).
This is painful, to me. So little I care about.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:15 am**

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:00 am
Collector wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:38 pm https://trekmovie.com/2023/01/08/nichol ... a-trekkie/
For some reason I always found it strange to find out celebrities are part of a particular fandom. I mean there's no reason they can't be. I just can't shake the feeling that actors would somehow be "above" that since they might be asked to be part of it some day. But then, Samuel L. Jackson is a Star Wars fan which is why he asked for a role. But Nic Cage: Star Trek fan. Never would have guessed one way or the other.

*shrug* I guess Nicholas Cage doesn't want acting work. That's OK. It just means that another actor (who doesn't have as much money as Cage) can take the job instead.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:54 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:15 am
notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:00 am
Collector wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:38 pm https://trekmovie.com/2023/01/08/nichol ... a-trekkie/
For some reason I always found it strange to find out celebrities are part of a particular fandom. I mean there's no reason they can't be. I just can't shake the feeling that actors would somehow be "above" that since they might be asked to be part of it some day. But then, Samuel L. Jackson is a Star Wars fan which is why he asked for a role. But Nic Cage: Star Trek fan. Never would have guessed one way or the other.
*shrug* I guess Nicholas Cage doesn't want acting work. That's OK. It just means that another actor (who doesn't have as much money as Cage) can take the job instead.

He just doesn't wanna be on Star Wars; not that he doesn't want work. Just more interested in Star Trek than Star Wars.

I think he knows in Star Wars he would be very restricted,... which I don't think he's used to.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:24 pm**

Hey, fair enough. Sorry, that's what I meant - he doesn't want acting work in Star Wars, that's all.

Maybe someone else will take the job, and become a big-name actor instead.

Star Wars would be very restrictive ... because of all the SW canon, I guess? *shrug* But wouldn't working on Star Trek be restrictive, also? There's a lot of canon in ST, too.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:26 am**

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:24 pm Hey, fair enough. Sorry, that's what I meant - he doesn't want acting work in Star Wars, that's all. Maybe someone else will take the job, and become a big-name actor instead.

Star Wars would be very restrictive ... because of all the SW canon, I guess? *shrug* But wouldn't working on Star Trek be restrictive, also? There's a lot of canon in ST, too.

I think Disney has a far tighter hold, than where the ST franchise sits.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:37 am**

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:26 am
Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:24 pm Hey, fair enough. Sorry, that's what I meant - he doesn't want acting work in Star Wars, that's all. Maybe someone else will take the job, and become a big-name actor instead.

Star Wars would be very restrictive ... because of all the SW canon, I guess? *shrug* But wouldn't working on Star Trek be restrictive, also? There's a lot of canon in ST, too.
I think Disney has a far tighter hold, than where the ST franchise sits.

If the Kelvin Timeline (the JJ Abrams ST films) and Discovery are any indication, then Paramount really doesn't put too much thought into the Star Trek IP.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:47 am**

DeadPoolX wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:37 am
Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:26 am
Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:24 pm Hey, fair enough. Sorry, that's what I meant - he doesn't want acting work in Star Wars, that's all. Maybe someone else will take the job, and become a big-name actor instead.

Star Wars would be very restrictive ... because of all the SW canon, I guess? *shrug* But wouldn't working on Star Trek be restrictive, also? There's a lot of canon in ST, too.
I think Disney has a far tighter hold, than where the ST franchise sits.
If the Kelvin Timeline (the JJ Abrams ST films) and Discovery are any indication, then Paramount really doesn't put too much thought into the Star Trek IP.

Easy there! Strange New Worlds is amazing.
(Admittedly not the biggest ST fan, but damn did I love ST:SNW).

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:31 am**

DeadPoolX wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:37 am If the Kelvin Timeline (the JJ Abrams ST films) and Discovery are any indication, then Paramount really doesn't put too much thought into the Star Trek IP.

And CBS even less.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:00 pm**

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:47 am Easy there! Strange New Worlds is amazing.
(Admittedly not the biggest ST fan, but damn did I love ST:SNW).

SNW is quite good, but it still feels a little off. Don't get me wrong, SNW is doing a reasonable job (much better than anything Discovery's vomited out), but it still lacks something that TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY had.

As for Andor (which is what you were originally talking about before this discussion got sidetracked to Star Trek), Maia and I watched that, and it's okay. I don't think it's amazing or even anything special, but it's not horrendous either. Probably its biggest fault is that the main character lacks personality. Even in shows where this is more common, usually supporting cast can make up for this, but in Andor the supporting cast is all over the place and rarely in the same scene with Andor (unless you consider the prison).

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm**

DeadPoolX wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:00 pm
Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:47 am Easy there! Strange New Worlds is amazing.
(Admittedly not the biggest ST fan, but damn did I love ST:SNW).
SNW is quite good, but it still feels a little off. Don't get me wrong, SNW is doing a reasonable job (much better than anything Discovery's vomited out), but it still lacks something that TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY had.

I think Anson Mount (captain) does a great job; and I feel like the stories are emotional. I think the only thing they're missing from TOS, TNG, etc., is the size - those shows grew to have a pretty large cast (where you were seeing a lot of different areas of the ship; the casino and such) and more actual aliens. SNW is pretty human focused, in terms of who is aboard the ship, primarily. There's no... Klingon, like what's his name, or the big eared short alien guy (who I think ran the casino), no... what was Whoppie... some weird mystic?

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:13 pm**

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm I think Anson Mount (captain) does a great job;

I agree that Mount is great as Captain Pike.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm I think the only thing they're missing from TOS, TNG, etc., is the size - those shows grew to have a pretty large cast (where you were seeing a lot of different areas of the ship; the casino and such) and more actual aliens. SNW is pretty human focused, in terms of who is aboard the ship, primarily.

The rest of the crew being human focused isn't too weird. The cast of TOS was all human except for Spock (who's half-human and half-Vulcan).

No, there's something else that I can't put my finger on that makes SNW feel wrong, even though it's still better than more recent offerings.

Part of what I dislike about SNW is something all the newer Star Trek shows have in-common: a general lack of discipline and respect for authority. Bridge officers say whatever they want and don't behave in a professional manner. Pike puts up with it because that's apparently what's considered "okay" now on a Starfleet vessel.

Look back at Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway, and you'll see they didn't put up with that crap. Even Janeway, who was much more lenient than the other three due to their unusual predicament, still required that bridge officers act with a certain amount of decorum while on duty.

The one saving grace is that the bridge crew on SNW behave a little better than the crew on Discovery and I know at least some of their names. I couldn't tell you who is who on Discovery because on that show no one matters except the main character (which runs contrary to the way Star Trek was run since the beginning) who is essentially "Space Jesus."

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm There's no... Klingon, like what's his name, or the big eared short alien guy (who I think ran the casino), no... what was Whoppie... some weird mystic?

The Klingon was Lieutenant Junior Grade/Lieutenant/Lieutenant Commander Worf who was on TNG and later DS9; the big-eared short alien guy was Quark, a Ferengi who owned the bar on DS9 (and I think had a cameo on TNG), and Whoopi Goldberg played Guinan, an El-Aurian who's hundreds of years old and helped people out (by talking about their problems) in Ten-Forward aboard the Enterprise-D on TNG.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:56 pm**

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pmThere's no... Klingon, like what's his name, or the big eared short alien guy (who I think ran the casino), no... what was Whoppie... some weird mystic?

OK, you can't opine about Trek without knowing these.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:52 pm**

DeadPoolX wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:13 pm
Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm I think Anson Mount (captain) does a great job;
I agree that Mount is great as Captain Pike.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm I think the only thing they're missing from TOS, TNG, etc., is the size - those shows grew to have a pretty large cast (where you were seeing a lot of different areas of the ship; the casino and such) and more actual aliens. SNW is pretty human focused, in terms of who is aboard the ship, primarily.
The rest of the crew being human focused isn't too weird. The cast of TOS was all human except for Spock (who's half-human and half-Vulcan).

No, there's something else that I can't put my finger on that makes SNW feel wrong, even though it's still better than more recent offerings.

Part of what I dislike about SNW is something all the newer Star Trek shows have in-common: a general lack of discipline and respect for authority. Bridge officers say whatever they want and don't behave in a professional manner. Pike puts up with it because that's apparently what's considered "okay" now on a Starfleet vessel.

Look back at Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway, and you'll see they didn't put up with that crap. Even Janeway, who was much more lenient than the other three due to their unusual predicament, still required that bridge officers act with a certain amount of decorum while on duty.

The one saving grace is that the bridge crew on SNW behave a little better than the crew on Discovery and I know at least some of their names. I couldn't tell you who is who on Discovery because on that show no one matters except the main character (which runs contrary to the way Star Trek was run since the beginning) who is essentially "Space Jesus."

Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pm There's no... Klingon, like what's his name, or the big eared short alien guy (who I think ran the casino), no... what was Whoppie... some weird mystic?
The Klingon was Lieutenant Junior Grade/Lieutenant/Lieutenant Commander Worf who was on TNG and later DS9; the big-eared short alien guy was Quark, a Ferengi who owned the bar on DS9 (and I think had a cameo on TNG), and Whoopi Goldberg played Guinan, an El-Aurian who's hundreds of years old and helped people out (by talking about their problems) in Ten-Forward aboard the Enterprise-D on TNG.

I also really like SNW. For me what I think is missing are the character moments we got from the TNG era. Some episodes would focus on a character for the "A" plot and have the sci-fi part as the "B" plot. You got to know Geordi, Worf, Crusher, etc. I think the problem may be the reduced number of episodes per season. They have to be more particular about which episodes get made. That leaves less room for "filler". Even if some episodes weren't the greatest, there usually was something worthwhile in there.

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:48 am**

Collector wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:56 pm
Tawmis wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:03 pmThere's no... Klingon, like what's his name, or the big eared short alien guy (who I think ran the casino), no... what was Whoppie... some weird mystic?
OK, you can't opine about Trek without knowing these.

Like I said, admittedly, most of my scant knowledge of Star Trek is some of the very original, because my father watched it. And all of the movies.
Random episode here and there of like TNG.
But never ... was into ST. I think because I never watched it from the start so I was never invested in characters and such.
Until SNW.
I am ashamed I didn't know Worf's name, however. That I should have known.

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:36 pm**

Question: IIRC, at some point, Captain Kirk tries to introduce Spock to Gilbert and Sullivan.

How does Spock react to the utterly illogical logic of G&S?

Within the worlds that Gilbert creates, the characters' actions make some kind of sense (not much, even so). But in the real world, their actions make no sense whatsoever.

Just wondering...

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