SHP Forums

I'd recommend either Camelot or Longbow, for the reasons given above by Tawmis, adeyke and (last of all) me!

So I have three (counting Rath) for Conquests of Camelot, one for Lighthouse and one for Phantasmagoria 2. So Conquests of Camelot it will be! Should be interesting.

notbobsmith wrote:So I have three (counting Rath) for Conquests of Camelot, one for Lighthouse and one for Phantasmagoria 2. So Conquests of Camelot it will be! Should be interesting.

Looking forward to this! You can post your play through comments in the Conquest forum on here!

Tawmis wrote:

notbobsmith wrote:So I have three (counting Rath) for Conquests of Camelot, one for Lighthouse and one for Phantasmagoria 2. So Conquests of Camelot it will be! Should be interesting.

Looking forward to this! You can post your play through comments in the Conquest forum on here!

Been a little quiet on the Conquest play through?

Tawmis wrote:

Tawmis wrote:

notbobsmith wrote:So I have three (counting Rath) for Conquests of Camelot, one for Lighthouse and one for Phantasmagoria 2. So Conquests of Camelot it will be! Should be interesting.

Looking forward to this! You can post your play through comments in the Conquest forum on here!

Been a little quiet on the Conquest play through?

Just posted something in the Conquest forum. Been a little busy and I was also finishing up another game at the same time.

notbobsmith wrote:

Tawmis wrote:

Tawmis wrote:

notbobsmith wrote:So I have three (counting Rath) for Conquests of Camelot, one for Lighthouse and one for Phantasmagoria 2. So Conquests of Camelot it will be! Should be interesting.

Looking forward to this! You can post your play through comments in the Conquest forum on here!

Been a little quiet on the Conquest play through?

Just posted something in the Conquest forum. Been a little busy and I was also finishing up another game at the same time.

What other game you playing? (Just to see what your tastes outside of Sierra are)

Tawmis wrote:

notbobsmith wrote:

Tawmis wrote:

Tawmis wrote:

notbobsmith wrote:So I have three (counting Rath) for Conquests of Camelot, one for Lighthouse and one for Phantasmagoria 2. So Conquests of Camelot it will be! Should be interesting.

Looking forward to this! You can post your play through comments in the Conquest forum on here!

Been a little quiet on the Conquest play through?

Just posted something in the Conquest forum. Been a little busy and I was also finishing up another game at the same time.

What other game you playing? (Just to see what your tastes outside of Sierra are)

I was finally finishing up the plot part of No Man's Sky.

What will be next after Conquests of Camelot? Will I continue with the other game in the series: Conquest of the Longbow? Or will it be more FMV horror with Phantasmagoria 2? Or maybe something totally different? You decide!

The Adventures of Willy Beamish
The Black Cauldron
Conquests of the Longbow
Heart of China
Lighthouse
Phantasmagoria 2
Torin's Passage

I've added "Torin's Passage" to the list. Just got it off GOG. I think that was the last one that they have that I haven't played. Polls close Wednesday.

Torin's Passage is... weird. It has a unique interface and some nice features. There's a log of recent dialogue, with audio playback available. There's also a hint system built into the game with a customizable timer. The game also combines the traditional save system and a chapter selection menu and an instant-undo button for deaths, which is great. And, in addition to a button for skipping animations/cutscenes, you can skip walking animations by right-clicking to walk. It also has the same basic interface as KQ7, with its single click and indication of hotspots, which means that, like KQ7, there are frequently things you'd want to look at for a description but can't.

The story is very generic, though. The inclusion of the obligatory love interest is especially groan-inducing. And the setting isn't really remarkable, either. The adverts made a big deal out of it being worlds with worlds, nesting-doll style, but this gimmick didn't really figure into things that much. That is, there doesn't seem to be much thought put into what that would mean for the world and how it would develop from that premise; it's just a reason to have each chapter have a distinct setting.

I don't remember much about the puzzles, but I recall some parts being really tedious.

The humor in it also frequently falls flat. There are a lot of things that seem like they're intended as comedy but instead just come off as weird. And there are things where the humor is just that there's a goofy animation.

All in all, it's a unique entry in the Sierra canon, and it does do some nice things, but I can't really recommend it overall.

I'd disagree with the above about Torin's Passage.

Yes, it is different. However, when Al Lowe designed it, he designed it for his grandkids. So there is a bit of silly cartoony aspect to it. It's different than any Sierra game you will have played previously.
But I found it unique, entertaining, and fun. Just imagine yourself in an interactive cartoon, with your side kick Boogle, and it's all good.

That said:

1. Conquests of the Longbow
2. Torin's Passage
3. The Black Cauldron
4. Lighthouse

The rest fall where ever...

The Adventures of Willy Beamish
Heart of China
Phantasmagoria 2

I still stan Phanstamagoria 2.

It was actually designed not as a children's game, but as a family game, suitable for all ages. That is, kids can play, adults can play it, and parents can play it with their children, with each enjoying it at their own level. This is a good concept, when properly executed. However, it's difficult to pull off well. Designing for children can make adults feel they're being talked down to and can make characters seem stupid and hard to relate to. And designing for adults can leave children just confused, since they don't have the development and life experience to understand some things (realizing that something is intended to be funny but not understanding why it is can be very unsatisfying). And children might be more accepting of plot holes and lackluster worldbuilding. Also, puzzles might end up too hard or too easy depending on whom they're tuned for.

Those challenges can be overcome. The key, I think, is to have depth, with both a surface-level reading that can be understood by children and subtext that can be appreciated by adults. Similarly, if characters are developed enough, their immediate intentions can make sense for children while their deeper motivations can leave them relatable for adults. Torin's Passage doesn't really do this, though. There are lots of times when the game feels condescending and shallow, and also lots of things that wouldn't make sense to children.

I'm intentionally omitting specifics here, since those would best be saved for after the game has been chosen and then played.

(It might also be worth mentioning that Torin's Passage was intended to just be the first in a whole new series, rather than a standalone game. So some of the weaknesses of the game come from that.)

I'd go with Torin, it's a stunning game with a lot of amazing characters, some really nice puzzles, one of Sierra's best easter eggs. Humour may get you or may not get you, and this game really got me a lot of times. Visuals are breathtaking and the music by Michel Legrand is wonderful!

I have to agree with Tawm and BBP. Torin is a very fun game. I think it did what it was trying to do very well. I never got the feeling that I was being talked down to, but if one is easily offended by a such perception when playing/watching or reading something intended to be enjoyed by children why indulge in such media?

Is Torin's a perfect game? No, of course not. Almost all games are flawed in one way or another, but its positives far outweigh any negatives. I would have loved to have seen it become a series.

adeyke wrote: It was actually designed not as a children's game, but as a family game, suitable for all ages. That is, kids can play, adults can play it, and parents can play it with their children, with each enjoying it at their own level.

Sorry, correct. I should have been more clear when I said it was designed specifically for his grandchildren.
From Al Lowe's site: http://allowe.com/games/torin/about-torin.html
Torin's Passage is a game I wrote in 1994 after watching the film Mrs. Doubtfire with my daughter. I realized during that film that the audience was laughing in two different pitches: high little giggles when the kids laughed at the slapstick parts of the film, and deep knowing guffaws when the adults caught something that they knew the kids wouldn't get. I thought: Why isn't there a computer game that my 9-year-old daughter and I could play that works like that?

So I created one.

adeyke wrote: This is a good concept, when properly executed. However, it's difficult to pull off well. Designing for children can make adults feel they're being talked down to and can make characters seem stupid and hard to relate to.

Well, unless said adult has a pretty immature mind (-cough cough - me - cough cough-) I am too much a kid a heart that even now (I played Torin's Passage about 3 years ago again) and still enjoyed it.

adeyke wrote: Those challenges can be overcome. The key, I think, is to have depth, with both a surface-level reading that can be understood by children and subtext that can be appreciated by adults. Similarly, if characters are developed enough, their immediate intentions can make sense for children while their deeper motivations can leave them relatable for adults. Torin's Passage doesn't really do this, though.

Well, if you're playing with a critical eye - sure, maybe you might not enjoy it. But if you're playing it just for the game, I didn't have any issues. Plot holes? Sure, if I really sat down and thought about it, I could think of some. But the game kept me entertained (as I said, I am talking just 3 years ago, so this isn't just nostalgia and a fuzzy memory!), that I didn't have time to stop and think, "Hey, waitaminute now..."

adeyke wrote: (It might also be worth mentioning that Torin's Passage was intended to just be the first in a whole new series, rather than a standalone game. So some of the weaknesses of the game come from that.)

I do wish we did get more than just the stand alone.