SHP Forums

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:54 pm Thanks for the website. I actually gave their system analyzer a try and it did correctly identify my system and gave me some recommendations for compatible RAM. DDR3 given the age of my system. Unfortunately, there were only a handful of options and the only place that had them in stock was Newegg via a sketchy third party seller in Australia. Really useful webpage, though.

You're welcome, NotBobSmith. I've bought RAM modules and an SSD drive from them over the years, and have never had any issue...

Plus, their database for finding the particular RAM specs of a desktop/laptop is top-notch!

( NOTE: This is not a paid advertisement; just the thoughts of a repeatedly-satisfied customer! )

Got it. Thanks, goatmeal.

Yes, I can see it's legitimate and not dangerous. The recommendations they come up with go to newegg, a well-known hardware supplier. (Unfortunately, it's also much more expensive than buying hardware locally, but eh - I'll find the hardware locally). Thanks again!

One thing that was puzzling: it told me that I had a Western Digital 1TB 7200RPM Hard Drive (Drive form factor: 3.5"). It told me to replace it with a Crucial MX500 SSD ... which is also 1TB. (Retailing at about $50 USD, which means ...$120 AUD). *headdesk*

Cost aside, why replace one 1TB drive with another 1TB drive? Surely, if I was going to upgrade, I should increase the drive-size? *shrug*

I also have one 8GB RAM module installed, so I can install another one. (Good). I also know how to do it, even without Crucial's advice - even better. (Then again, installing RAM modules isn't hard, But I have heard horror stories, like some boneheads who file off part of the module, or ... get a soldering iron, and ... well, it's not pretty. Poor, abused hardware)

goatmeal wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 12:15 am Type "Device Manager" in the search box in your Taskbar
—or—
Click the Windows Start icon, select Settings, then type "Device Manager" in that search box

I've also had problems finding system specs in Windows 10. (Why does everything get moved around with each new OS?) I tried looking at Device Manager, but I couldn't find anything concerning RAM. I ended up finding it by bringing up the Task Manager with Ctrl-Alt-Del and looking under the "Performance" tab. 4x2GB 1600 MHz DDR3.

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:15 pm
One thing that was puzzling: it told me that I had a Western Digital 1TB 7200RPM Hard Drive (Drive form factor: 3.5"). It told me to replace it with a Crucial MX500 SSD ... which is also 1TB. (Retailing at about $50 USD, which means ...$120 AUD). *headdesk*

Cost aside, why replace one 1TB drive with another 1TB drive? Surely, if I was going to upgrade, I should increase the drive-size? *shrug*

That's a solid state drive (SSD). They are much, much faster than mechanical drives. As goatmeal mentioned above, your mechanical drive might be slowing things down.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:34 pm

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:15 pm
One thing that was puzzling: it told me that I had a Western Digital 1TB 7200RPM Hard Drive (Drive form factor: 3.5"). It told me to replace it with a Crucial MX500 SSD ... which is also 1TB. (Retailing at about $50 USD, which means ...$120 AUD). *headdesk*

Cost aside, why replace one 1TB drive with another 1TB drive? Surely, if I was going to upgrade, I should increase the drive-size? *shrug*

That's a solid state drive (SSD). They are much, much faster than mechanical drives. As goatmeal mentioned above, your mechanical drive might be slowing things down.

To add to what NotBobSmith wrote, if you have the funds, you may want to consider a dual-drive system where the Operating System and programs reside on the SSD, while all your data is on an HDD (which you currently own).

SSD
Pros = Much faster than HDDs ; no mechanical / moving parts
Cons = Higher cost & lower capacities than HDDs ; much shorter lifespan for writing & re-writing than HDDs

HDD
Pros = Much larger capacities & much lower cost than SSDs ; longer lifespans for writing & re-writing than SSDs
Cons = Much slower than SSDs ; mechanical / moving parts are prone to breakdown

The writing / re-writing part is why SSDs are good for the OS and programs. OS's and programs don't usually take up much space, and once you install them, you aren't likely to delete them / install new ones every few days or weeks; only small changes are made here and there to your settings, etc. They also recommend NOT de-fragging your SSD, because (1) it's essentially unnecessary for this type of drive, and (2) it will shorten the lifespan of the drive.

Conversely, that's why HDDs are better for data, especially large amounts of data; they can withstand being written / re-written over and over again. Video editing, downloading movies, music, etc. can all take up a lot of storage space, and are of a more transient nature. You may not keep them for more than a few weeks or months.

And the point of de-fragging an HDD is speed: if the dive has to access different spots on the disk instead of one area (the file is fragmented), that takes more time (= slower access time); if the data is all in one spot, the access time is faster. In an SSD, it doesn't matter if the data is fragmented; you won't see a slowdown in performance. From the Cruical Memory website:

Mechanical drives have a relatively long seek time of approximately 15ms, so every time a file is fragmented you lose 15ms finding the next one. This really adds up when reading lots of different files split into lots of different fragments.
...
However, this isn't an issue with SSDs because the seek time are about 0.1ms. You won’t really notice the benefit of defragged files — which means there is no performance advantage to defragging an SSD.

So the seek time of an SSD is ~150× faster than a traditional HDD.

I have my OS (and specific programs) on my C Drive which is an SSD, while D and E Drives are both HDDs and house data, images, games, etc. Sure, it's faster if you put games on an SSD, but my SSD is rather small at 120 GB since I got it when I put my computer together in 2014. Nowadays it's fairly inexpensive to buy an SSD with a lot of room.

Having my OS (and everything else) on different drives was what initially worried about doing an upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I've also heard a lot of conflicting information online, where one site or board says you can't upgrade with your Users Folder on separate drive while elsewhere people say you absolutely can upgrade in that scenario.

In the end, I think I'm going to go with Linux and use the POP_OS distro. It's the best one for Nvidia GPUs and it's targeted at gamers and those who do a lot of digital art or audio/video work. Steam's Proton (designed to get Windows-only games to run on Linux) also means there's a ton of games that are compatible. Thankfully Valve is very, very pro-Linux. It's even what their SteamOS on their new Steam Deck uses.

Back to SSDs... What I find really impressive are the M.2 SSDs. Those things are so small, attach directly to the motherboard, and are much, much faster than even "normal" SSDs.

I imagine the original purpose was for laptops since they take up so little room and an SSD is okay if the laptop gets jostled. That said, they're being used in many desktops now and if cost isn't the primary consideration, it's worth looking at an M.2 over a "normal" SSD.

Hmm. I've looked at the differences between "normal" SSDs and M.2 ones, and even very large M.2 SSDs are fairly inexpensive these days. (I've compared PLE Computers, M-Wave and ScorpTec - all hardware stores that I'm familiar with, and that I know do good work).

It appears that 1 TB M.2 SSDs retail for about $80 AUD, and 2 TB ones retail for about $100 - 150. (That's about $50 USD to a 1 TB drive, and a range of $60 - 100 for a 2 TB drive). I'm impressed. I thought that something as advanced as that would be much more expensive.

Having said that, do I need anything bigger than a 2 TB drive for "just" the OS (and specific programs)? Windows 10 takes up 32 GB, so that's 'tiny' compared to the drive capacity. I suppose I could house Steam and GOG on it too, but even so, that would leave tons of room on the drive. (Yes, I know I shouldn't fill it to the brim, and I don't plan to. But what's the point of having all that capacity and not using it?)

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:40 pm Having said that, do I need anything bigger than a 2 TB drive for "just" the OS (and specific programs)? Windows 10 takes up 32 GB, so that's 'tiny' compared to the drive capacity. I suppose I could house Steam and GOG on it too, but even so, that would leave tons of room on the drive. (Yes, I know I shouldn't fill it to the brim, and I don't plan to. But what's the point of having all that capacity and not using it?)

Considering how low the prices are, I'd advise having an SSD for your OS and very specific programs (in my case that'd be video editors, audio editors, and so on) and a different SSD for Steam, GOG, Origin, UPlay, and whatever else.

You really don't want to fill up your OS drive, which is incredibly easy to do with programs like Steam. As it is, you'll still have stuff installed from Steam and GOG onto AppData which will be on your OS drive regardless of where you install the actual programs, so you'll still take up some room but not nearly as much as if everything was on your OS drive.

You could also get a very large HDD to store stuff like photos, images, music, and stuff you won't normally use. Again, this wouldn't cost very much at all, so it might be worth considering.

The thing to remember about M.2 SSDs is that the motherboard has to have M.2 slot. Given the age of Rath's system (and mine) it probably won't have one.

I would actually recommend using an SSD for gaming, especially if it is something more modern. The size of games now mean long load times if you are using a mechanical drive. Older titles won't matter as much.

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:05 pm The thing to remember about M.2 SSDs is that the motherboard has to have M.2 slot. Given the age of Rath's system (and mine) it probably won't have one.

Good point. Older motherboards, like the ones Rath, you, and I have wouldn't have a slot for an M.2.

DeadPoolX wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:34 am

notbobsmith wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:05 pm The thing to remember about M.2 SSDs is that the motherboard has to have M.2 slot. Given the age of Rath's system (and mine) it probably won't have one.

Good point. Older motherboards, like the ones Rath, you, and I have wouldn't have a slot for an M.2.

Mine pre-dates the M.2 slot as well.

My SSD for OS + programs is 1 TB, but it's only ~1/4 full (~250 GB)... Granted, I don't have that many games / programs installed at the moment.

Again, if you're doing okay now with a 1 TB HDD, then having an extra 1 TB SSD wouldn't hurt; you're not using all of your HDD at the moment (unless you're running out of room), so your current storage requirements would be spread out over the two drives with plenty to spare.

However, if you have the funds, go for the 2 TB SSD. You can always use it for overflow data as a last resort, and when you buy your new Windows 11 machine in a few years, you can transfer it to THAT machine for use there.

Hmm ... question: I regularly (every 2-3 days or so) see my HDD light - well - light up almost constantly. (I saw it last night). I checked my Task Manager, and saw that my RAM was at 62% usage and my HDD was at 100% usage.

I was using MS Edge, two Windows Explorer windows, and four text files. Nothing else.

Obviously this isn't normal. Not too long ago, I updated from Windows 7 to Windows 10. In Win7, I turned Windows Updates off; in Win10, I let them run. So, I thought it might be Windows Updates up to their old tricks. But I checked in services.msc, and Windows Updates is set to "Manual".

This morning, my RAM is at 60% usage and my HDD is only 5% used.

Last night, I noticed that my firewall (Comodo Internet Security, one of my TSRs) was using lots of RAM and HDD space. This morning ... almost nothing. So that can't be it.

Any other ideas what this could be? I know I should install more RAM, and I will. But what could this HDD usage be?

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:35 pm Hmm ... question: I regularly (every 2-3 days or so) see my HDD light - well - light up almost constantly. (I saw it last night). I checked my Task Manager, and saw that my RAM was at 62% usage and my HDD was at 100% usage.
I was using MS Edge, two Windows Explorer windows, and four text files. Nothing else.
Obviously this isn't normal. Not too long ago, I updated from Windows 7 to Windows 10. In Win7, I turned Windows Updates off; in Win10, I let them run. So, I thought it might be Windows Updates up to their old tricks. But I checked in services.msc, and Windows Updates is set to "Manual".
This morning, my RAM is at 60% usage and my HDD is only 5% used.
Last night, I noticed that my firewall (Comodo Internet Security, one of my TSRs) was using lots of RAM and HDD space. This morning ... almost nothing. So that can't be it.
Any other ideas what this could be? I know I should install more RAM, and I will. But what could this HDD usage be?

If you leave applications running - even if you're doing nothing in them - they chew up resources.
(I am unclear why you'd ever turn off Windows Updates and make your machine potentially wide open to something malicious...)
Also do you have scheduled tasks, like Defrag, and all that stuff set to run?

And finally, like people, Windows will be active - even if you're doing nothing. Like having a dream.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:22 am (I am unclear why you'd ever turn off Windows Updates and make your machine potentially wide open to something malicious...)

Because one of the Windows Updates (in Win7, anyway) caused the search function in Windows Explorer to stop working. In other words, I could no longer search for any files. (Obviously, not a good place to be).

I restored my machine to the state it was prior to the update (using the Backup/Restore facility in Windows 7) and left it in that state. I never experienced anything malicious, but I was very careful to check for viruses, malware etc. Never had anything wrong.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:22 am If you leave applications running - even if you're doing nothing in them - they chew up resources.

Also do you have scheduled tasks, like Defrag, and all that stuff set to run?

And finally, like people, Windows will be active - even if you're doing nothing. Like having a dream.

No scheduled tasks, no.

Yes, I understand that having applications running uses up resources. But this - i.e. having 100% of my HDD being used - was happening as soon as I logged into Windows, and continued happening. Naturally, my system was slow. Is that normal?

Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:29 am Yes, I understand that having applications running uses up resources. But this - i.e. having 100% of my HDD being used - was happening as soon as I logged into Windows, and continued happening. Naturally, my system was slow. Is that normal?

My system is pretty much unusable for several minutes after booting up. It has to load all of the start up applications. As for why it jumps to 100% every once in a while, I guess one of the processes in the background needs to do something. Windows 10 Task Manager will tell you which application is using RAM/CPU/HDD resources.

Hmmmmm ... welp, first, the good news: I worked out what's wrong with my system. (I compared it with my dad's system, which boots up and logs in much quicker. His CPU is less powerful, and he has as much RAM as I do, but I'm using a mechanical HDD and he's using an SSD).

So, it looks like I'll need to buy an SSD, then move my existing system (plus data) to it.

The bad news: after booting my computer tonight ... it didn't make it as far as the Windows login screen. So, reboot.

Take 2 made it to the login screen, and I logged in and started MS Edge ... and the system froze. Reboot.

Take 3 ... made it to the login screen (eventually), log in, wait, wander off to watch TV, get distracted by TV ... and now things are OK. Hopefully.

The worse news ( ): This is not the first time this has happened. *plays Weird Al's "Why Does This Always Happen To Me?"*

Has this happened to you also?