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The Best/Worse Part Of This Game Was...

Well - the idea here is - every game (or series, where there was more than one) had some GREAT moments, but there were some, no matter how great the rest of the game was - that had some stinkers. (For example, GK3 over all was an amazing game; but ask anyone about the mustache puzzle of the game, and they will probably all groan).

So I want to see what everyone's Best/Worse moments were for a game... and if there's a series - name Best and Worse for each one, if you're so inclined.

Quest for the Crown
Best: I like the goat puzzle. I like getting an animal to follow you around so it can solve a puzzle. I kind of wish this became a series' staple where each entry has a helpful animal friend you can recruit.
Worst: Ifnkovhgroghprm. Even if you think backwards, even if you inverse the alphabet, even if you know western fairy tale lore... you still need to know how to spell Rumplestiltskin.

Romancing the Throne
Best: Toss-up between the Batmobile and Michael Jackson's Thriller outside the castle.
Worst: THROW BRIDLE ON SNAKE. Because it's obviously a horse trapped in a snake's body?

To Heir is Human
Best: Beating Manannan
Worst: Beating Manannan

Perils of Rosella
Best: I love the haunted house segment. Meeting ghosts and digging up their graves is such a morbid twist on the series and I love it.
Worst: The troll cave. The only way through is to keep saving/loading and hope the troll doesn't spawn whenever you enter a new section. Unless somebody can shed light on how this scene is programmed, you're basically rolling the dice through the cave.

Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder
Best: I want to say... Sir Greywolf's voice? Actually, the game's overall visual/audio presentation is both ground-breaking and iconic to the genre, so I'll say the game's aesthetic is the best part.
Worst: Waiting two minutes in the library for Mordack to sleep.

Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Best: I love the catacombs, but I think the Realm of the Dead qualifies as the best part.
Worst: I don't like the "fake death potion". I like the idea of the puzzle, but I don't understand who left it on the table, where they got it, or what they were using it for. That seems like the most "dropped in" element of the game for me.

The Prince-Less Bride
Best: Grooving to the gravedigger's theme song.
Worst: Walking back and forth to Malicia's hut waiting for the stupid dog to stop yapping.

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:31 am Quest for the Crown
Worst: Ifnkovhgroghprm. Even if you think backwards, even if you inverse the alphabet, even if you know western fairy tale lore... you still need to know how to spell Rumplestiltskin.

Yeah - that puzzle was a bit harsh. At time, I swear they were like, "Make it so it spells it backwards. Wait. No. Invert everything too. They will need to call the hint line or buy a hint book! More money, more money, more money!"

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:31 am Romancing the Throne
Best: Toss-up between the Batmobile and Michael Jackson's Thriller outside the castle.
Worst: THROW BRIDLE ON SNAKE. Because it's obviously a horse trapped in a snake's body?

I don't know that I remember the Michael Jackson thing... and agreed about the bridle... there should have been some hint somewhere about a pegasus being cursed or something...

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:31 am To Heir is Human
Best: Beating Manannan
Worst: Beating Manannan

How is that the worse?!?!

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:31 am Perils of Rosella
Best: I love the haunted house segment. Meeting ghosts and digging up their graves is such a morbid twist on the series and I love it.
Worst: The troll cave. The only way through is to keep saving/loading and hope the troll doesn't spawn whenever you enter a new section. Unless somebody can shed light on how this scene is programmed, you're basically rolling the dice through the cave.

For myself, it was a toss up that it was a female character... or that there was day and night sequences...!
And agreed on the troll cave... pretty sure it's completely random.

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:31 am Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder
Worst: Waiting two minutes in the library for Mordack to sleep.

Agreed... but... it's not Cedric's voice?

KQ1: Quest for the Crown
Best: The graphics in the remake are amazing for EGA. Second best EGA graphics of all of Sierra (second only to Colonel's Bequest). But on a more gameplay side, maybe the fact that you can actually kill one of the random pop-up enemies so that they don't bother you anymore (witch). For such an old game, that was a powerful moment of agency for the player to me.
Worst: The worst part for me would have to be the.....er....I don't know that there's anything in this game I don't really care for, actually. Trying to think of downsides. I think it's very well designed! Especially in the remake which is the perfect version of the game. The original AGI version has a few problems but then it's so old so you can't really criticize it for that. I guess the thing I'd say I LIKE the least is the cave walkway puzzle. But I don't mind that it's there at all. It looks really cool (in the remake) and the atmosphere is great.

(Unlike probably everyone else, I don't have a problem with the Rumplestiltskin puzzle as it's not needed to complete the game. It's a bonus puzzle for full points only. If it was necessary to complete the game then I'd say it was bad design for sure.)

KQ2: Romancing the Throne
Best: I really liked the tower realm. Beautiful in any version of the game. It's so different and bizarre and really gives you a sense of finality to the game. You feel very accomplished just getting there....and yet it's not quote the end of the game yet! Also, the game box cover is very captivating and intriguing. Great design. Also, I never knew about the Michael Jackson thing either. I'm going to have to look that up.
Worst: Again, most people will probably say the bridle. I don't. It's, again, not necessary as you can just kill it. However, that means you don't get the sugar cube to protect you from the poisonous thorns on Dracula's island. So I'll say that my least favourite part is the thorns (though, again, I don't really mind it).

KQ3: To Heir is Human
Best: I love the graphics and how the game is kind of designed in reverse; you defeat the villain and then go on a journey.
Worst: Walking up that mountain path and the magic map not taking you to the top automatically. I seem to be picking walking puzzles as my least favourite but only because I can't think of anything else...

KQ4: The Perils of Rosella
Best: First day/night cycle! That was cool. Also liked the ghost puzzle. The zombies are annoying, though. Even though you can get the scarab. Their constant popping up and playing that danger theme gets old fast.
Worst: The troll cave. Seems sloppily designed. I like the dark atmosphere and finding your way around. It's creepy and fun, but the random appearances and the fact that if the troll appears, you're dead...should be a way to outrun or lose him. But you're simply screwed if he shows up at all and you're forced to restore. It's entirely left to chance with no player agency whatsoever. The time limit in the whale's mouth is a close second.

KQ5: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder
Best: The Dark Forest. The entire section. Love it all. Everything about it. Great atmosphere and even the back and forth between Graham and the witch. Besides that, I just love how the whole game is designed realistically with real consequences. But I'm in the minority for that.
Worst: Toss up between there being no death punishment for missing the gold coin (the only dead end I don't like) and the waiting cutscene that takes ages for Graham and the wolf to walk through that snow pathway. Uggggghhhh

KQ6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Best: Fantastic story. Makes me feel like a kid watching those old love story cartoons. And the soundtrack is beautiful, especially GITT. Gameplay-wise, I like The Land of the Dead. Excellently designed game area and shows the extent Alexander is willing to go for Cassima (provided you do choose that route, which brings me to the second best part: there are two pathways with entirely different puzzle solutions).
Worst: We don't get to explore Chessland.

KQ7: The Princeless Bride
Best: There's a strong sense of puzzle design here that's close to Myst than traditional King's Quest (in that it just dumps a bunch of puzzles on your without any explanation whatsoever and you have to figure it all out). I actually like this, even if it is a bit out of character. But I'm not that attached to KQ7 so I don't mind this. Just happy to find anything redeeming about KQ7.
Worst: The animation. very few frames making it look slow and choppy and it's way too pixelated for cel-shading. I don't know. Full Throttle is similar but it looks far better for some reason. It just seems off. I dislike it. I understand that they were going for that classic Disney style and I can commend them for trying, but they didn't succeed.

KQ8: Mask of Eternity
Best: I actually appreciate this game. I love exploration and 3D games deliver that in droves. Usually I'd be against something that's so against what King's Quest has always been about, but...I don't know. After playing Elder Scrolls games for some reason I'm more open to it and I really wish we could have gotten a King's Quest game with that kind of style approach and storytelling with an open world concept. There are still puzzles (though not to the same calibre)
Worst: Daventry is unrecognizable. Though, there IS a well! I don't know, I never beat this game and it's been ages since I played it, but I liked the design approach. There's probably lots of things as the game goes on that dates it, but I can't fault it for that. So, yeah. Daventry is unrecognizable.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:17 amI don't know that I remember the Michael Jackson thing...

"Thriller" plays outside Dracula's castle when you first arrive.

How is that the worse?!?!

I should clarify: it's the loop of beating Mannannan that's the worst. Because for 20 minutes, you have to run back and forth up that mountain, hiding things under your bed and then waiting for him to leave. It's satisfying when you beat him, but actually beating him is... no... wait. I just thought of something worse.

The spellbook. Typing things from your manual to create the spells is the worst part. That part can take roughly as long as beating the wizard, and any typo or poorly worded input can end your progress immediately. Plus you have to turn off the sound partway in so you can concentrate.

Agreed... but... it's not Cedric's voice?

No, I'm fine with Cedric. The voice matches the character's usefulness.

Oh, and because I forgot KQ8:

Mask of Eternity
Best: I like the weapon system. Not only does each new weapon make you feel like a more powerful badass, but each one is also a puzzle-solving item you need to progress.
Worst: King Graham's nasally voice in the intro.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm KQ1: Quest for the Crown
Best: The graphics in the remake are amazing for EGA. Second best EGA graphics of all of Sierra (second only to Colonel's Bequest). But on a more gameplay side, maybe the fact that you can actually kill one of the random pop-up enemies so that they don't bother you anymore (witch). For such an old game, that was a powerful moment of agency for the player to me.

It's really easy to forget that it's actually EGA.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm (Unlike probably everyone else, I don't have a problem with the Rumplestiltskin puzzle as it's not needed to complete the game. It's a bonus puzzle for full points only. If it was necessary to complete the game then I'd say it was bad design for sure.)

Yes, but back in the day - I didn't know that. I took everyone I ran into to be something required to beat the game.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm KQ2: Romancing the Throne
Worst: Again, most people will probably say the bridle. I don't. It's, again, not necessary as you can just kill it. However, that means you don't get the sugar cube to protect you from the poisonous thorns on Dracula's island. So I'll say that my least favourite part is the thorns (though, again, I don't really mind it).

While yes, you can just kill it - but the bridle thing is so... random. Who even figured that out before the hint book?

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm KQ3: To Heir is Human
Worst: Walking up that mountain path and the magic map not taking you to the top automatically. I seem to be picking walking puzzles as my least favourite but only because I can't think of anything else...

That mountain path is horrible, because they intentionally put some screens where you can't see where you're walking...!

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm KQ4: The Perils of Rosella
Best: First day/night cycle! That was cool. Also liked the ghost puzzle. The zombies are annoying, though. Even though you can get the scarab. Their constant popping up and playing that danger theme gets old fast.
Worst: The troll cave. Seems sloppily designed. I like the dark atmosphere and finding your way around. It's creepy and fun, but the random appearances and the fact that if the troll appears, you're dead...should be a way to outrun or lose him. But you're simply screwed if he shows up at all and you're forced to restore. It's entirely left to chance with no player agency whatsoever. The time limit in the whale's mouth is a close second.

The day/night was one of my tops for this game. But the troll cave, I agree. The only way to "escape" him is if you're fast enough and close enough to the load screen.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm KQ6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Best: Fantastic story. Makes me feel like a kid watching those old love story cartoons. And the soundtrack is beautiful, especially GITT. Gameplay-wise, I like The Land of the Dead. Excellently designed game area and shows the extent Alexander is willing to go for Cassima (provided you do choose that route, which brings me to the second best part: there are two pathways with entirely different puzzle solutions).
Worst: We don't get to explore Chessland.

I would have liked to have seen more of Chessland too.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:36 pm KQ8: Mask of Eternity

Fixed that for you.

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:52 pm

How is that the worse?!?!

I should clarify: it's the loop of beating Mannannan that's the worst. Because for 20 minutes, you have to run back and forth up that mountain, hiding things under your bed and then waiting for him to leave. It's satisfying when you beat him, but actually beating him is... no... wait. I just thought of something worse.
The spellbook. Typing things from your manual to create the spells is the worst part. That part can take roughly as long as beating the wizard, and any typo or poorly worded input can end your progress immediately. Plus you have to turn off the sound partway in so you can concentrate.

Ah, that makes more sense.

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:52 pm Oh, and because I forgot KQ8:

There is NO King's Quest 8.

But there is some lame game called...

Datadog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:52 pm Mask of Eternity
Best: I like the weapon system. Not only does each new weapon make you feel like a more powerful badass, but each one is also a puzzle-solving item you need to progress.
Worst: King Graham's nasally voice in the intro.

I never finished this game... my seething hatred for it, even when I first bought it... would not allow me to continue.

It was like buying a delicious hamburger at the drive in, and getting home - and it's a fish sandwich instead.

I expected one thing, based on that it was supposed to be "King's Quest" and got a very, very, very, very piss poor version of some hack and slash.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:13 pmYes, but back in the day - I didn't know that. I took everyone I ran into to be something required to beat the game.

Yeah, but if you fail the riddle he gives you a key which leads to an alternate path up to cloudland. The beans are entirely optional. Did you just ignore the key then?

The day/night was one of my tops for this game. But the troll cave, I agree. The only way to "escape" him is if you're fast enough and close enough to the load screen.

It's pretty much impossible, though, because he follows you from screen to screen and he's way faster than you. Unless you're close to the exit of the cave itself, you're toast.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:15 pm I never finished this game... my seething hatred for it, even when I first bought it... would not allow me to continue.

It was like buying a delicious hamburger at the drive in, and getting home - and it's a fish sandwich instead.

I expected one thing, based on that it was supposed to be "King's Quest" and got a very, very, very, very piss poor version of some hack and slash.

It's not a mere hack and slash, though. It's got more thinking in it than your average medieval action game. It's not as smart as King's Quest, but it is smarter than your average action slasher. It's probably repetitive though. I played the first section up to the underworld (so I went through all of Daventry) and I enjoyed it.

But also, I mean it was advertised far in advance for what it was going to be. Expecting anything else was...foolhardy? Unless you just never followed it at all and bought it off the shelf. Pretty sure it says action/adventure on the box though?

(Standard disclaimer about not liking deaths and dead ends.)

KQ1
I especially liked: There's something to be said for its simplicity. There's no real plot; you just explore the world for treasures. I also appreciated how many of the puzzles had multiple solutions.
I disliked: The gnome's name, certainly. Also the random deadly encounters. And the beanstalk.

KQ2
I especially liked: The aesthetics of the place where the tower is. Also, the world is more dynamic than in KQ1.
I disliked: Much of it. It's mostly just "more KQ1" rather than being its own thing (i.e. it's another search for three items, and some characters are reused). There is, of course, the snake bridle, but other things also make no sense. For example, little red riding hood is looking for a basket to give to grandma, but you find it already in grandma's mailbox. And grandma is in a quantum superposition of alive and eaten (anything where you leave a screen and immediately go back to have things be different is bad design). Also, in addition to the thorn maze, there are lots of deadly stairs.

KQ3
I especially liked: Gathering the ingredients for magic spells at the start.
I disliked: The long, boring ship sequence. Also, the teleportation at random isn't good for the game. And I don't like that the spells were copy protection or that they needed to be typed so meticulously.

KQ4
I especially liked: Rosella as protagonist. The day/night cycle.
I disliked: The whale tongue and the troll cave. Also the deadly stairs and the path back from Lolotte's castle. Also, the undead don't make game design sense. The only thing the zombies do is punish the player for taking too long and having night fall naturally. Normally, night falls automatically after you get the scarab, which means that they're just a vague annoyance, since you're perfectly safe from them. This goes double for the mummy; if you manage to get there, you definitely already have the scarab, so that scene is really anticlimactic.

KQ5
I especially liked: I suppose just having VGA graphics, voices, and a mouse interface was a big deal, even if they weren't all good.
I disliked: The interface gave far too many red Xs instead of meaningful messages. Cedric is terrible. Even in those cases where he gives genuinely good advice, he only does so after you've already started to take that wrong action and can't stop.

KQ6
I especially liked: Most of it. Beautiful graphics and music, imaginative settings.
I disliked: Given that the genie had the telltale golden eyes, his attempts to indirectly kill you seem more comical than genuinely threatening. He's only fooling the narrator.

KQ7
I especially liked: Some of the settings are really beautiful.
I disliked: The characterization of the two protagonists just doesn't make them very likeable. And some of the puzzles are really annoying (I think there was something about needing to listen to the sound of a dog to know whether it's safe to enter a house or not). I actually don't mind the simplified interface as much, but it needed more hotspots to just be able to look at (and not just stand next to and say "Hmmm."). The inventory item close-ups, with the pre-rendered 3D objects, haven't aged well.

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm I disliked: Given that the genie had the telltale golden eyes, his attempts to indirectly kill you seem more comical than genuinely threatening. He's only fooling the narrator.

That's kind of a bizarre issue to have. I always felt it was simultaneously merely comic relief (because of the accompanying music) and a plot device to continue to tell the story of how the vizier is trying to get rid of you. I don't think it was ever intended to actually fool you. But that doesn't mean it's pointless. But if that's your least favourite part of the game, that's certainly giving it a high rating.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:36 pm Yeah, but if you fail the riddle he gives you a key which leads to an alternate path up to cloudland. The beans are entirely optional. Did you just ignore the key then?

When I first played? I thought I was going to be missing a part of the game if I didn't get it right. Thought the key was like a consolation prize. "You're not able to figure it out, so you can go the easy way, through this magic door that's locked by this... let's call it 'special' key..."

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:36 pmBut also, I mean it was advertised far in advance for what it was going to be. Expecting anything else was...foolhardy? Unless you just never followed it at all and bought it off the shelf. Pretty sure it says action/adventure on the box though?

Oh, I followed it. I was an avid Sierra junkie in my youth, obviously. But I thought the changes were going to make it more akin to Quest for Glory, which... I think was maybe their intention... but their execution was horrible. Whether it was the HORRIBLE amateur graphics... or the horrible voice acting... or the extremely dark (literally) screens...

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm KQ1
I disliked: The gnome's name, certainly. Also the random deadly encounters. And the beanstalk.

That beanstalk was murder. On my play through I had to speed up the video because of the amount of times I feel and immediately restored.

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm KQ2
I especially liked: The aesthetics of the place where the tower is. Also, the world is more dynamic than in KQ1.
I disliked: Much of it. It's mostly just "more KQ1" rather than being its own thing (i.e. it's another search for three items, and some characters are reused). There is, of course, the snake bridle, but other things also make no sense. For example, little red riding hood is looking for a basket to give to grandma, but you find it already in grandma's mailbox. And grandma is in a quantum superposition of alive and eaten (anything where you leave a screen and immediately go back to have things be different is bad design). Also, in addition to the thorn maze, there are lots of deadly stairs.

I think the grandma / bad wolf thing should have been triggered by an event. (Like after you pick up "Object_X" grandma = big bad wolf)

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm KQ4
I disliked: The whale tongue and the troll cave. Also the deadly stairs and the path back from Lolotte's castle. Also, the undead don't make game design sense. The only thing the zombies do is punish the player for taking too long and having night fall naturally. Normally, night falls automatically after you get the scarab, which means that they're just a vague annoyance, since you're perfectly safe from them. This goes double for the mummy; if you manage to get there, you definitely already have the scarab, so that scene is really anticlimactic.

Stairs in general were a bane to any of the AGI/SCI games, because if there was more than 10 steps, it was a lethal, neck snapping fall, typically.

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm KQ6
I especially liked: Most of it. Beautiful graphics and music, imaginative settings.
I disliked: Given that the genie had the telltale golden eyes, his attempts to indirectly kill you seem more comical than genuinely threatening. He's only fooling the narrator.

I get where you're going with that. I can see why that might bug you.
I am currently on KQ6 for my play throughs - and it doesn't bother me, personally. But I can see how that might break immersion of the game.

MusicallyInspired wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:28 pm

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm I disliked: Given that the genie had the telltale golden eyes, his attempts to indirectly kill you seem more comical than genuinely threatening. He's only fooling the narrator.

That's kind of a bizarre issue to have. I always felt it was simultaneously merely comic relief (because of the accompanying music) and a plot device to continue to tell the story of how the vizier is trying to get rid of you. I don't think it was ever intended to actually fool you. But that doesn't mean it's pointless. But if that's your least favourite part of the game, that's certainly giving it a high rating.

I don't know. It just feels weird. He pops up repeatedly, trying to kill you, and if you do as he says, you do actually die. And if you ignore him, the narrator will make some excuse for why he disappears. There's no way to tell the game that you see through the disguise or to confront the genie. As far as the game is concerned, Alexander never catches on. If he's just for comic relief, this is fine, but the genie was sent by someone who is an actual threat and who did actually murder people, so there is that dissonance.

I do quite like KQ6, so most of my complaints fall under my standard disclaimer or are things that just aren't coming to mind.

Tawmis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:36 pm

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm KQ2
I especially liked: The aesthetics of the place where the tower is. Also, the world is more dynamic than in KQ1.
I disliked: Much of it. It's mostly just "more KQ1" rather than being its own thing (i.e. it's another search for three items, and some characters are reused). There is, of course, the snake bridle, but other things also make no sense. For example, little red riding hood is looking for a basket to give to grandma, but you find it already in grandma's mailbox. And grandma is in a quantum superposition of alive and eaten (anything where you leave a screen and immediately go back to have things be different is bad design). Also, in addition to the thorn maze, there are lots of deadly stairs.

I think the grandma / bad wolf thing should have been triggered by an event. (Like after you pick up "Object_X" grandma = big bad wolf)

If you still need the items from grandma, she needs to alive (so no wolf). If you no longer need the items, you have no reason to enter the cottage, so you also wouldn't see that there's a wolf now. Also, having a character you just helped end up being eaten by a wolf would rather dark for KQ game.

It would be better, in the context of the original KQ2, to just omit the wolf entirely.

adeyke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:01 pm If you still need the items from grandma, she needs to alive (so no wolf). If you no longer need the items, you have no reason to enter the cottage, so you also wouldn't see that there's a wolf now. Also, having a character you just helped end up being eaten by a wolf would rather dark for KQ game.
It would be better, in the context of the original KQ2, to just omit the wolf entirely.

I feel like the big bad wolf sort of needs to be there, since we have Little Red Riding Hood and Grandma... it's all a part of the fairy tale.

But perhaps changing how it works. Maybe mixing up the fairy tale aspect (so big bad wolf for LRH and 3 Little Pigs) ; have him outside of the house, trying to get in. Sort of randomly appearing similar to the Three Bears in King's Quest IV.

KQ is just using the characters from the fairy tale. It's not retelling the tale. Just the fact that there's Little Red Riding Hood already gives the context for who the grandma is; it doesn't really need more. The simple structure of KQ2 means it's just a character who wants one item and will give you another item in exchange. Actually having the whole story there would draw a lot of focus.

I do think that KQ's use of contextless fairy tale characters is one of the series's weaknesses. It's more compelling when have their own characters/settings, or at least adapt the character to make it their own instead of just sticking it in.