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Firstly, sorry we all missed Sinterklaas (5 December!) I hope you had a good Sinterklaas and received good presents.

Secondly, I just learned that in the Netherlands, there are two Christmas days (held on 25th and 26th December). What's all that about? How do you celebrate your two Christmas days?

Apparently there used to be even four days of Christmas in the Netherlands. Is that true?

Just curious!

December 26th is colloquially known as 2nd day of Christmas, and indeed we used to have 4.

In the Christian calendar, 26 December is the feast of St Stephen, it's also a bank holiday in Belgium, Bulgaria, many of the Bundesländer in Germany, Cyprus, the UK (Boxing day) and many other countries in Western Europe. The Catholic calendar is jampacked during the winter: December 27 is one of several St Johns and December 28 is the Feast of the Holy Innocents (to Qbix's benefit - this is called Onnozele Kinderen in Dutch). Then there's nothing until new years (day of Peace and St Mary's day), then there's Epiphany on 6 January and the accommemoration of Christ's circumcision on Jan 8th, and his baptism is either the 8th of the 9th.

Historically parties have been going on through most of the dark days - Christmas used to last until somewhere in February.

The Netherlands is officially protestant since our royal family is protestant - but the division in religion was for a long time roughly a third Catholic and a third Protestant (with the Catholics usually having the upper hand). As such, Catholic days aren't so mainstream that we celebrate the Assumption of Mary (which is big in Belgium for instance), but we did have 4 Christmas days back in the day allowing for the Onnozele Kinderen celebrations and all the sacred activity inbetween.

There isn't much left of the Catholic community in the city where I live, but in nearby Valkenswaard Onnozele Kinderen is still celebrated by throwing candy off the church tower. Nice huh?

All right. Being Jewish, I had no idea about all of this. Thank you.

This is surprising:

BBP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:20 pm ...then there's Epiphany on 6 January and the ccommemoration of Christ's circumcision on Jan 8th...

If Christ really was born on December 25th, Joseph and Mary took their time. A circumcision usually takes place 8 days after the baby is born. Lots of other religions practice it, too.

BBP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:20 pmThe Netherlands is officially Protestant since our royal family is Protestant - but the division in religion was for a long time roughly a third Catholic and a third Protestant (with the Catholics usually having the upper hand).

What about the other third? *curious*

BBP wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:20 pm...In nearby Valkenswaard Onnozele Kinderen is still celebrated by throwing candy off the church tower. Nice huh?

Um, I assume they don't use hard candy. Otherwise, what happens if a hard candy falls on a kid and hurts him/her?

haha I may have forgotten the exact date of the circumcision, couldn't find it on the calender I had onhand.
The division of Dutch religions has been flexible in the past few centuries, if you're interested there's a great Wiki-page here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_ ... etherlands

But the remaining third is Jewish (or whatever was left of that community after WW2 cost the life of such a large chunk out of that community, relatively much higher than in other European countries) , Muslim and otherwise. "Ietsisme" is translated by Wikipedia as "spirituality" but that doesn't really cover the feel of the word. An Ietsist would say: "I don't believe in God but I do believe there's "something".The Dutch word for "something" is iets.

Personally I'm a born and bred atheist who never voluntarily attended a church mass and only visits religious buildings voluntarily as tourist. There was a brief time I considered myself Wicca until I realised I didn't believe it, and I briefly considered myself Pastafari until I realized pirates shouldn't be worshipped, you know, with the slave trades and murders and stuff.

Not sure what type of candy they'll throw in Valkenswaard, I hope I can make it there this year. Yumyumyum.

I like this about the Netherlands, from the wiki-page:

Many Dutch people believe religion should not have a significant role in politics and education. Religion is also primarily considered a personal matter which should not be discussed in public.

This is also good:

Because of its social tolerance, the Dutch Republic formed a haven for Jews that were persecuted because of their beliefs throughout Europe.

But yes, World War 2 was dreadful.

I suppose I'd fit into agnosticism (I'm not sure if there is a god, and I don't think there's a way to find out), but personally, I think I'm more of a humanist - like Erasmus of Rotterdam. I don't know if there is a god, but if there is, I don't think he's separate from humanity.

As for pastafarianism ... I'm confused. What does pasta have to do with pirates? *shrug*

In the original letter about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Henderson illustrated the difference between correlation and causation with a graph that suggests the decrease in pirates caused the increase in global temperature.
Read more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster