The good and the bad - Laura Bow edition!

[Tawmis]

Every game has something good and something bad about it...

So what would you say is good AND bad about the following...

Colonel's Bequest -
Dagger of Amon Ra -

[Rath Darkblade]

Colonel's Request, er, Bequest ...

GOOD: The entire thing (almost). Very Clue-ish. Very atmospheric and shocking in the right places. Not easy. Good death scenes (Have A Nice Death!)
BAD: The fact that you have to wait for time to advance. The fact that if you miss something, you've missed it for good.

Dagger of Amon Ra ...

GOOD: The entire thing (almost). Very well researched - loved the 1920s feel. Again, very atmospheric, not easy, and good death scenes (though some of the deaths are cheating, like the rats -- if you forgot to pick up a way to beat them, you're doomed).
BAD: Again, waiting for time to advance ... and if you missed some vital conversation, you're doomed.

Laura Bow and the Mechanical Codex ...

GOOD: Looking very promising!!!
BAD: Not out yet.

[notbobsmith]

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.
BAD: I'm not really sure that this is a game. You can kind of just meander through it and then get to the end.

The Dagger of Amon Ra:
GOOD: Laura gets fleshed out more here and is a likeable character.
BAD: Being trapped in a museum in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense. The tone could be off at times too. Characters are murdered in almost comedic ways.

[Rath Darkblade]

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.
BAD: I'm not really sure that this is a game. You can kind of just meander through it and then get to the end.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the game progresses unless you witness certain things, but I'm not sure.

Tawm, can you please help? You're the TCB expert.

If TCB isn't a game, what would it be instead? *ponders* A visual novel? I've heard of some games being described that way, especially some new indie games.

The Dagger of Amon Ra:
GOOD: Laura gets fleshed out more here and is a likeable character.
BAD: Being trapped in a museum in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense. The tone could be off at times too. Characters are murdered in almost comedic ways.

Why doesn't it make sense, NBS? Once it is found that the dagger is stolen, it's obvious that the police declare that No-one Must Leave This Vicinity(TM). That's a common trope in detective novels etc.

On the other hand, I agree that some characters' deaths are improbable. (I wouldn't call any of them particularly funny, though).

[notbobsmith]

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.
BAD: I'm not really sure that this is a game. You can kind of just meander through it and then get to the end.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the game progresses unless you witness certain things, but I'm not sure.

Tawm, can you please help? You're the TCB expert.

If TCB isn't a game, what would it be instead? *ponders* A visual novel? I've heard of some games being described that way, especially some new indie games.

Exactly. As you wander around, you come across some people talking. Certain events advance the clock and then you reach the end. There is no puzzle solving. There is exploration which adds more story to some of the characters, but they aren't necessary to reach the end of the game. You don't have to do anything to reach the end.

The Dagger of Amon Ra:
GOOD: Laura gets fleshed out more here and is a likeable character.
BAD: Being trapped in a museum in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense. The tone could be off at times too. Characters are murdered in almost comedic ways.

Why doesn't it make sense, NBS? Once it is found that the dagger is stolen, it's obvious that the police declare that No-one Must Leave This Vicinity(TM). That's a common trope in detective novels etc.

On the other hand, I agree that some characters' deaths are improbable. (I wouldn't call any of them particularly funny, though).

The police don't seal everyone in the building. The police never even show up, except for Hanrahan who is already there. The Villain locks them in and steals the keys. From the transcript:

LB Hi, Mr. Leach. Can you let me out of this museum? I don't like it in here. People keep dying.
EL Sorry, Miss Bow, I seem to have lost my door keys.
LB Oh. I find that very disturbing.
EL Me too. I can't even let MYSELF out of the building. We're ALL staying here until I
find those keys.

First of all, what kind of door requires keys to get outside? And why not break down a door? Break a window?

As for funny deaths... there's the one who was impaled by a pterodactyl beak.

[Rath Darkblade]

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.
BAD: I'm not really sure that this is a game. You can kind of just meander through it and then get to the end.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the game progresses unless you witness certain things, but I'm not sure.

Tawm, can you please help? You're the TCB expert.

If TCB isn't a game, what would it be instead? *ponders* A visual novel? I've heard of some games being described that way, especially some new indie games.

Exactly. As you wander around, you come across some people talking. Certain events advance the clock and then you reach the end. There is no puzzle solving. There is exploration which adds more story to some of the characters, but they aren't necessary to reach the end of the game. You don't have to do anything to reach the end.

Hold on, now. Don't you need to find various information/inventory items etc. before the next cut-scene?

The Dagger of Amon Ra:
GOOD: Laura gets fleshed out more here and is a likeable character.
BAD: Being trapped in a museum in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense. The tone could be off at times too. Characters are murdered in almost comedic ways.

Why doesn't it make sense, NBS? Once it is found that the dagger is stolen, it's obvious that the police declare that No-one Must Leave This Vicinity(TM). That's a common trope in detective novels etc.

On the other hand, I agree that some characters' deaths are improbable. (I wouldn't call any of them particularly funny, though).

The police don't seal everyone in the building. The police never even show up, except for Hanrahan who is already there. The Villain locks them in and steals the keys. From the transcript:

LB Hi, Mr. Leach. Can you let me out of this museum? I don't like it in here. People keep dying.
EL Sorry, Miss Bow, I seem to have lost my door keys.
LB Oh. I find that very disturbing.
EL Me too. I can't even let MYSELF out of the building. We're ALL staying here until I
find those keys.

First of all, what kind of door requires keys to get outside? And why not break down a door? Break a window?

As for funny deaths... there's the one who was impaled by a pterodactyl beak.

I'm not sure about that. Someone being impaled isn't funny (I wouldn't laugh), but I can see how anyone would think "They expect us to believe THAT?" etc.

[notbobsmith]

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.
BAD: I'm not really sure that this is a game. You can kind of just meander through it and then get to the end.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the game progresses unless you witness certain things, but I'm not sure.

Tawm, can you please help? You're the TCB expert.

If TCB isn't a game, what would it be instead? *ponders* A visual novel? I've heard of some games being described that way, especially some new indie games.

Exactly. As you wander around, you come across some people talking. Certain events advance the clock and then you reach the end. There is no puzzle solving. There is exploration which adds more story to some of the characters, but they aren't necessary to reach the end of the game. You don't have to do anything to reach the end.

Hold on, now. Don't you need to find various information/inventory items etc. before the next cut-scene?

Nope. You don't need to pick up anything.

[Tawmis]

Colonel's Request, er, Bequest ...
BAD: The fact that you have to wait for time to advance. The fact that if you miss something, you've missed it for good.

You can - if you know where to go - have the game finish in almost 30 minutes. There's technically no waiting - you can trigger the time events back to back.

Dagger of Amon Ra ...
BAD: Again, waiting for time to advance ... and if you missed some vital conversation, you're doomed.

I think the only bad thing I found in Dagger was that other people just... don't react to dead bodies. They will walk into a screen where someone has a dinosaur impaled through their chest and just stand there like, "Oh, that's normal."

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.

Yes, this was so 200% well done.

The Colonel's Bequest:
GOOD: I do love the atmosphere. The sense of dread. The characters and their little dramas.
BAD: I'm not really sure that this is a game. You can kind of just meander through it and then get to the end.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the game progresses unless you witness certain things, but I'm not sure.
Tawm, can you please help? You're the TCB expert.

Absolutely correct - you can (see my response to you before I saw this!) - trigger all the events back to back if you walk to them in the right order. The game, I think, can reach the end within 30 minutes if you tried it.

The Dagger of Amon Ra:
BAD: Being trapped in a museum in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense. The tone could be off at times too. Characters are murdered in almost comedic ways.

Why doesn't it make sense, NBS? Once it is found that the dagger is stolen, it's obvious that the police declare that No-one Must Leave This Vicinity(TM). That's a common trope in detective novels etc.

Yes, but being trapped - why wouldn't they immediately call the police once the first body is found to come out? It's not like the bodies vanish. The guy impaled by the pterodactyl remains in the room - dead. The entire time. Some of the guests even wander into the room while he's dead and make no reaction.

Unlike Colonel's Bequest, the bodies would vanish after you saw them (you find them all later). In Dagger, they stay there - so you'd think they'd be like, "Crap! There's a dead person here! Call the cops!" As opposed to Colonel's Bequest if Laura (could) fetch someone to show them the dead body - the body's gone! Making it seem like there's been no murder. But only Laura knows there is. In Dagger, it's clear by other guests wandering into rooms where there's a dead body, that there is clearly people being murdered.

[Rath Darkblade]

Colonel's Request, er, Bequest ...
BAD: The fact that you have to wait for time to advance. The fact that if you miss something, you've missed it for good.

You can - if you know where to go - have the game finish in almost 30 minutes. There's technically no waiting - you can trigger the time events back to back.

Can you? I didn't know about that, but of course, I wanted to experience as much of the game as possible. (Since this is a detection game, why wouldn't you try to see as much as you can, so you can draw the right conclusions at the end?)

Dagger of Amon Ra ...
BAD: Again, waiting for time to advance ... and if you missed some vital conversation, you're doomed.

I think the only bad thing I found in Dagger was that other people just... don't react to dead bodies. They will walk into a screen where someone has a dinosaur impaled through their chest and just stand there like, "Oh, that's normal."

True. I never thought of that, but you're right. (Or someone in an iron maiden, etc.) I also thought Ziggy's death was a bit much, i.e. putting his head in the life masks. Yes, it's creepy as hell, but why would the murderer go to all that trouble? And also, wouldn't decapitating Ziggy, so you can put his head in the masks, mean that your nice clean suit would get very bloody? But no-one's suit has even a spot of blood on it.

The Dagger of Amon Ra:
BAD: Being trapped in a museum in the middle of a city doesn't make much sense. The tone could be off at times too. Characters are murdered in almost comedic ways.

Why doesn't it make sense, NBS? Once it is found that the dagger is stolen, it's obvious that the police declare that No-one Must Leave This Vicinity(TM). That's a common trope in detective novels etc.

Yes, but being trapped - why wouldn't they immediately call the police once the first body is found to come out? It's not like the bodies vanish. The guy impaled by the pterodactyl remains in the room - dead. The entire time. Some of the guests even wander into the room while he's dead and make no reaction.

Unlike Colonel's Bequest, the bodies would vanish after you saw them (you find them all later). In Dagger, they stay there - so you'd think they'd be like, "Crap! There's a dead person here! Call the cops!" As opposed to Colonel's Bequest if Laura (could) fetch someone to show them the dead body - the body's gone! Making it seem like there's been no murder. But only Laura knows there is. In Dagger, it's clear by other guests wandering into rooms where there's a dead body, that there is clearly people being murdered.

True, but there are two reasons for this -- one very good, the other not so much:

1. The wires are cut, so you can't call anyway.
2. Detective O'Riley is on the scene, so I guess everyone trusts that he would sort everything out.

(I'll give you one guess which reason isn't so good)

[Semi-Happy Partygoer]

Colonel:

Good: Atmosphere. Talk about creepy, yet also beautifully drawn. I also love the growing tension as bodies mount. The place goes from lively and populated to practically deserted in mere hours.

Bad: Not bad, per se, but the way Laura has no impact on the plot until the “who to shoot” choice. Also, some of the characters are maybe a little too one-note and on the nose. The dialogue can be rather stilted.


Dagger:

Good: A more complex plot, more colourful characters, Laura has more personality and shows more cunning. Stronger writing and dialogue. A lighthearted, snarky tone to the narration which helps make the murder easier to swallow.

Bad: The isolation is more contrived. As has been pointed out, everyone would’ve freaked and busted doors or windows to escape. NPCs don’t react to corpses. Less consistent manner of time advancing, making it easier to miss certain events. No dialogue trees to make questioning suspects simpler. The whole “match a motive” device at the end kind of came out of left field, as no prior aspect of gameplay used such a mechanic. Also, no explanation how Laura retrieved her original outfit considering the flapper chucked it out.

[BBP]

LB1: Good: Atmosphere!! Beautifully drawn, corpse pile effect
Bad: text parser troubles, poor implementation of the internal scoring system

LB2: Good Roaring 20s atmosphere combined with Creepy Egypt
Bad: Voice acting, Dialog Book means much content but it's nigh impossible to dig through, NPC characters mostly move too fast for interrogation

[Collector]

Colonel:

Good: Atmosphere. Talk about creepy, yet also beautifully drawn.

I have often said that TCB has the best EGA graphics of any game ever. Douglas Herring's masterpiece.