Star Wars: The Old Republic.

[AndreaDraco]

I don't think so. If it would be free, maybe, but generally speaking I don't like MMORPGs.

[Tawmis]

I don't think so. If it would be free, maybe, but generally speaking I don't like MMORPGs.

See, I swore the same thing.
I swore them off after leaving WoW (after Lich King, and getting two characters to max level).

The only difference for this...

1. It's Bioware. Need I say more?
2. It's Star Wars. Need I say more?
3. It's Bioware doing Star Wars. Need I say more?
4. Co-workers are going to be playing it. So the main reason I have left MMO's is the lack of having folks that I enjoy playing with. And when I do find people, there's always time zone differences. There's about 100 of the folks I work with (we're on a mailing list at work) that will be playing. Granted I won't be playing with all 100. I am sure they will scattered to different servers and factions. But the majority of people in my department have all ageed to try and be on the same sever, same faction. So if that holds true, then this could be an excellent time!

[DeadPoolX]

I'm with Andrea on this. I don't care if it is Star Wars and BioWare is doing it, the point is it costs to play.

If Guild Wars (and Guild Wars 2, which is supposedly coming out sometime relatively soon) can work without a subscription fee, then there's no reason why any other MMO should have one either. Well, no reason other than greed.

At the very least, if it was free to play with a basic account (and subscribers got a premium account), I might try it. With a pay-to-play model, the fun goes right out the window, since I feel like I have to play in order to get my money's worth -- and I may not want to play every single day.

[Tawmis]

I feel like I have to play in order to get my money's worth -- and I may not want to play every single day.

I see your point, trust me!
I guess, the way I see it... A movie will cost me $9.00 to go see (on average).
Most movies are about 2 to 3 hours.
So if I play - in one month - 2 to 3 hours worth of the game, then it's pretty much balancing itself out (so long as I am enjoying myself).

I am sure, some time down the road, they will do what World of Warcraft has done - and make it "free to play" all the way to level 20. You can keep playing, once you reach level 20 - you just never level higher than 20.

I am sure, a few years after Star Wars is out, they will follow the same model. WoW has been around for a LONG time and finally did the free to play up to level 20.

Many other MMO's are going free to play (City of Heroes, Star Trek, etc).

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah. I can't justify paying an on-going subscription to play a game. I once considered lifetime purchases, but that went out the window once I learned so many MMO's now are going with F2P instead with microtransactions. As soon as STO hits that, I'm starting on that one. I wanted to go with LOTRO but it just doesn't interest me. I can't justify shelling out cash each month for TOR either.

[Maxor127]

I would've rather had KOTOR3. This game is shaping up to be exactly how I feared. From what I've seen, it looks like WoW in the Star Wars universe with nerfed jedi and $15 a month subscription fees. I'd like to know what $15 really gets you. What are people actually paying for? The only thing I can see is server maintenance, and I can't see that costing $15 per person. It's definitely not for new content because I know they'll be charging for expansion packs as well.

[Tawmis]

Yeah. I can't justify paying an on-going subscription to play a game. I once considered lifetime purchases, but that went out the window once I learned so many MMO's now are going with F2P instead with microtransactions. As soon as STO hits that, I'm starting on that one. I wanted to go with LOTRO but it just doesn't interest me. I can't justify shelling out cash each month for TOR either.

I like Lord of the Rings Online (link to existing thread on SHP). What I liked about it (I played when it became free) was that it reminded me very much of my days of EverQuest MMO where the world was literally quite huge, and it could take an hour just to run - on foot - from one end to the other (unlike World of Warcraft, which at most, took 20 minutes to run from one end to the other on foot). But it wasn't just that - it's that everyone had quests - some linked to bigger ones, some trivial - but I liked that just about anywhere you went, there was a quest to be had.

I would've rather had KOTOR3. This game is shaping up to be exactly how I feared. From what I've seen, it looks like WoW in the Star Wars universe with nerfed jedi and $15 a month subscription fees. I'd like to know what $15 really gets you. What are people actually paying for? The only thing I can see is server maintenance, and I can't see that costing $15 per person. It's definitely not for new content because I know they'll be charging for expansion packs as well.

I would have loved a KOTOR3 as well, if it was done by Bioware. I liked KOTOR2, but it was clearly an unfinished product. And from what you have seen of TOR being WoW in a Star Wars Universe - how have you seen this? Know someone who was in beta? (I knew three people in beta - and they all had their various gripes).

Will TOR have your: "yer a newb and id pwn u with my litesabur and jedi pwrs."
Yes.
Will TOR have people who spend every hour, of every minute, of every second of their lives on it?
Yes.
Will TOR become unbalanced?
Without a doubt.
Will TOR be full of kids (and adults) who cry about other classes and races?
Yes, of course.

The thing is - it will only bother you if you let it.

Shadows of Ysberuis on INN - I played with friends. Didn't really care about anything else.
Ultima Online - I bought because I loved Ultima, but had no friends on there, and hated the game because of the players. My subscription lasted like 3 months.
EverQuest - My first "real" MMO; I played because co-workers played and invited me to their guild. I began in April 2000 (with Ruins of Kunark) and left around February 2003 (around the time of the expansion The Legacy of Ykesha)
Star Wars Galaxies - Because, well, it's Star Wars. A bunch of friends were all supposed to jump on, but they never did; still I played for about a year.
City of Heroes - I got in on beta and played this for about a year with friends (and many folks from my days of EverQuest)
World of Warcraft - Got in on beta as well; and played this the same time as CoH, but CoH died out because many of the EverQuest friends jumped to WoW
- There was actually a division; many EQ people jumped to EQII and WoW; further fractured by the inability to group with the other factions; half went to alliance, other half to horde
- I eventually even quit WoW shortly after The Burning Crusade expansion, because the guild had fractured so much
- Once, when they did the free 7 day thing, I jumped back on and by the oddest coincidence ran into someone in a random zone from my guild; he was the only one
- We grouped up and had a ball; and as a result, I played and got Lich King; he disappeared eventually due to financial problems; and I quit again

At this point, I swore of MMOs, unless they were free, which is why I began playing Lord of the Rings Online from time to time, and met some cool people who were really into the story and mythology of LOTOR.

I can look back and see a pattern.

I played these games, because of the friends I played with. I never played to be the best. I never played to have the best "lewt." I never played to be uber. I never played to "reach the end game." I never played to "do high end raids." I never played to be the best at PVP - for that matter, I hate PVP - unless it's just fun, crazy chaos. (I could tell you a few giggly PVP stories - usually resulting in my death, which was funny!)

I played because I enjoyed the stories. I played because I enjoyed the friends. The one game I never enjoyed, and still believe to be the worse MMO ever, was ULTIMA ONLINE. And why? Because there was no friends. The story and quests were horrible. So that only left the people - in a game where PVP was a dominate feature. I never cared or cried if they "nerfed" a character class. So they change something my Shaman does that makes me a little weaker. So what? So they made the Paladin a crazy powerful tanking class. So what? I just played to have fun. Enjoy the stories. And share the experience with friends. I never cried or cared about "nerfed" weapons, classes or races. I stayed away from the forums, because they were full of people who cried foul that some race and/or class is now better than theirs!

Yes, when I played WoW, whenever I walked into Ogirmirre (or however you spell it) - the trade channel was usually a verbal war of whose lewt was better. But then I just turned off the trade channel. Problem solved. People who were like, "My lewt is the best." I put them on ignore.

I believe, if the game is an MMO, and it's well developed - then the game experience is WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT. You can make it a bad or good experience.

I could probably sit here and talk ANYONE's ear off, who would listen, about some of the most fantastic memories I have playing EverQuest, shared with friends... about chaos... and madness... and great digitized adventures!

[DeadPoolX]

Shadows of Ysberuis on INN - I played with friends. Didn't really care about anything else.

My brother and I definitely played that. Of course, we had to use the same PC and same account, so we never got to play together. Even so, we had teammates and MOST of the people we found on there weren't too bad.

Maia and I actually played this back when we had a long-distance relationship. INN was free to use, so we both downloaded it and played SoY. That eventually led us to playing Guild Wars.

Ultima Online - I bought because I loved Ultima, but had no friends on there, and hated the game because of the players. My subscription lasted like 3 months.

[...]

The one game I never enjoyed, and still believe to be the worse MMO ever, was ULTIMA ONLINE. And why? Because there was no friends. The story and quests were horrible.

UO was, for the most part, the first commercially successful MMO and so they made a lot of mistakes. Unlike the MMOs that followed, the creators of UO didn't have a wealth of experience (or at least information) to use.

That said, those mistakes created a world where people -- like my brother and me -- were able to let loose and become living terrors.

I can look back and see a pattern.

I played these games, because of the friends I played with.

Without friends (or at least teammates who won't act like complete asshats), any MMO will become very boring. MMOs aren't about story or a single player experience, so you need to have someone to game with.

That's what led me to dropping EQ and WoW. I didn't have friends in either, although I was initially told by some online friends they'd group with me in WoW. They did for maybe a day or two, but that was it. All in all, it just seemed way too much like EQ (but far more forgiving).

Maia's the main reason I went back to Guild Wars. Oh, it's a fun game and there's no subscription fee (which is a huge bonus!), but it'd be extremely lonely without a good teammate.

[Tawmis]

Ultima Online - I bought because I loved Ultima, but had no friends on there, and hated the game because of the players. My subscription lasted like 3 months.
[...]

That said, those mistakes created a world where people -- like my brother and me -- were able to let loose and become living terrors.

All I recall, is going outside, getting killed. Over and over again. Finally making it back out and like everything was looted. So I died again in game, became a 'ghost' and found out you could physically affect items in the game. So when people put things down - I became immature - and would literally move them to a place where the player could not reach it. (Like if it was on those counters, move it over the counter, where there was no way to get OVER the counter, and all the edges of the counter connected to walls). I am not sure if that was intended to be that way (about ghosts being able to physically move things; but I know you had to open doors and such, back then as a ghost and couldn't pass through walls or anything ghostly; so it may have been a bug in the early release of the game). Like I said, I lasted a whole three months, I think it was.

I can look back and see a pattern.
I played these games, because of the friends I played with.

Without friends (or at least teammates who won't act like complete asshats), any MMO will become very boring. MMOs aren't about story or a single player experience, so you need to have someone to game with.
That's what led me to dropping EQ and WoW. I didn't have friends in either, although I was initially told by some online friends they'd group with me in WoW. They did for maybe a day or two, but that was it. All in all, it just seemed way too much like EQ (but far more forgiving). Maia's the main reason I went back to Guild Wars. Oh, it's a fun game and there's no subscription fee (which is a huge bonus!), but it'd be extremely lonely without a good teammate.

Yeah, anyone who has played any MMO that came out after EVERQUEST and cries that it's too hard - I want to slap. Try dying in EverQuest and LOSING XP, so that you need a Cleric to get you a 70,80,90% Rez. Try doing a corpse run, where you don't get to be a ghost that runs to your body; rather you reappear at your bind point; naked, with no armor and no weapons and either need to run back to your body, or give someone permission to drag your corpse to an area that's safe (usually the zone line).

But agreed, it's about the friends for me. I had been riding the fence, more in favor of not getting TOR, because it was indeed an MMO. But seeing many of my co-workers, whom I work with, who are on the same time zone that I am on, and that I get along with; all jumping on this; I know I will at least get 6 months to a year of enjoyment out of the game. I know, for certain, I will probably play more than 5 hours every month (which comes out to seeing a movie in terms of price). As it is, those of us who work together play Left 4 Dead 2 still, almost every Tuesday, and play at least 3 hours of that (usually 7pm to 10pm PST), and all of them are the folks jumping onto TOR. So I am sure L4D2 will be replaced with TOR gaming.

[MusicallyInspired]

I tried out the free beta stress test weekend tonight. The game seems pretty fun. Might just have to get it.

[Tawmis]

I tried out the free beta stress test weekend tonight. The game seems pretty fun. Might just have to get it.

I played Sunday and Monday Night, for a total of 6 hours.

The game is - as I figured - pretty amazing. Rather than just standard dialogue; you have options, some which will influence dark or light side force points, some which have no effect on dark/light side points. The fact that you have options in dialogue is what makes this stand out above the rest.

That said, I cancelled my order for SWTOR today.

Not because of anything I was disappointed in, within the game. The game is amazing. However, years of converting over to a Console Gamer vs a PC Gamer, my Computer Specs are below the min requirements for SWTOR. While, I can turn every setting - and I mean EVERY setting to "LOW" and knock my resolution down to "1024x768" in game, and turn off Shadows and all those other bells and whistles; then the game becomes playable for me... But then, why pay monthly for something that's turned all the way down to it's bare minimum? It's like paying to see a 3D movie, but not use the 3D glasses! The min requirements recommend a nVidia 7800 (supports Shading), and I have an nVidia 6800. Yes, I could probably upgrade my video card (I'd have to check, this is a DELL XPS desktop, so I am not even sure if the card is AGP, PCI or built in) - but really, it's not worth it to me to upgrade my video card to play this game, that I will have to pay monthly for. I don't use my PC for any "modern" gaming anymore. Haven't in a very long time. (Well, unless you count GRAY MATTER, which my computer meets the requirements for). So I bid farewell to SWTOR today!

I will no doubt grow tired of everyone at work talking about it!

[Collector]

I am not even sure if the card is AGP, PCI or built in

Been a little while since you've looked inside a PC case, I see.

[Tawmis]

I am not even sure if the card is AGP, PCI or built in

Been a little while since you've looked inside a PC case, I see.

Honestly, I have only ever opened it up once. And it was when I first got it, to throw more memory into it. Other than that, I have never had a need to replace anything. Nothing's ever broken in it. No hard drive crash. No bad power supply. No dead fan. I have been REALLY impressed with the Dell XPS, when I got it, because I just wanted a system quick (back then, because my older one had crashed) and I didn't want to build my own. (There's something about working in IT, that when I get home, I do not want to do any form of 'IT related work'). And since getting the XBOX (before the X360) I have been gradually becoming more and more of a console gamer, because it's so hassle free. And by the time I got my X360, I was pretty much completely converted to console gaming. (For example, I have Mass Effect 2 for the PC, which I got free; I have it installed; played some of it, but not much; because even that can't be played at full resolution, with all the bells and whistles on). And yet, Mass Effect 2 on the X360, I have already beat twice. (And got near a third time, but some other new game came along and prevented me finishing my 3rd play through). Same situation with Dragon Age: Origins. Have it for PC and X360. Beat it SEVERAL times on X360, only beat it once on PC. For the same exact reason.

About ten years ago, I would have never imagined myself more of a console gamer.

[Collector]

I only say because they have not used PCI graphics cards for about that long and AGP is dead now, too.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, it's all PCI-Express now. Actually, PCI-E 2.0.