MoE, KQ or Not?

[Erpy]

Well, Dune1 was an adventure-like game and Dune2 was an RTS. Both were Dune-games. Zelda 1 was a top-down adventure-rpg where you collected money and items and Zelda 2 was mostly a platformer-rpg where you gained levels and collected items. Both were Zelda games. KQ1...7 were colorful pure adventure games taking place in the Daventry Zone (as Space Quest 1 EGA calls it) while MOE was a darker adventure-rpg also taking place in the Daventry Zone. So yeah, I think it's a KQ-game, even though its style does not fit in with the other games in the series.

[AndreaDraco]

Your reasoning is certainly fitting, Erpy. And I can see you're right.

Still, I can't force myself to feel it like a KQ game: too different, not only in gameplay; but also in scope, purpose, atmosphere, mood... Just about everything.

[Fender_178]

I agree. KQ MOE maybe a different style of KQ game but its not a valid sequel. and I just finished MOE recently and it still doesnt change my mind of a proper KQ game. I wouldnt mind if they made made KQ game with either Edgar or Cassima as the lead.

[DeadPoolX]

Well, Dune1 was an adventure-like game and Dune2 was an RTS. Both were Dune-games. Zelda 1 was a top-down adventure-rpg where you collected money and items and Zelda 2 was mostly a platformer-rpg where you gained levels and collected items. Both were Zelda games. KQ1...7 were colorful pure adventure games taking place in the Daventry Zone (as Space Quest 1 EGA calls it) while MOE was a darker adventure-rpg also taking place in the Daventry Zone. So yeah, I think it's a KQ-game, even though its style does not fit in with the other games in the series.

That's exactly how I feel about the game. I've been saying for years that MOE is a KQ game and technically can be called KQ8 since it's the eighth in the series. That has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you personally like the game.

I can understand why many disliked MOE. It was based in a harsh and bleak reality, where fighting took precedence over dialogue or even plot development. The main character was in no way related to Daventry's royal family, as well. So to many, it seemed like a completely different game (which in many ways, it was). However, it's still a KQ game by virtue of the title shown on the box and game.

[MusicallyInspired]

I wouldn't call MOE King's Quest 8 (it was never officially called KQ8 anyway, except in some foreign countries), but I do call it a King's Quest. And a good one. Not the best one. Not even the best in its genre. But still enjoyable.

[Collector]

It was undeniably part of the KQ universe, but I would call it more of a spinoff, even if it was originally intended to be the next in the series. The series might have had different protagonists for each game, but each of the main games used a member of the royal family. As far as slapping on the KQ8 to the title in Europe, I think that that was more to bolster weak sales. By that time Roberta Williams had little control over her pride and joy. Some where on Ken Williams site is a thread that give the story of MoE and why it turned out very different than Roberta had intended. When I get some time I will see if I can find it. Much of what is on his boards is not very accessible.

[AndreaDraco]

If you manage to find it, I'll be glad to read it! I tried but I can't seem to locate it!

[Fender_178]

Interesting if you can find any info on MOE that we dont know about it that would be great. I all ready knew about the Kq8 name to the European version of the game. Also wikipedia says that many KQ fans say that this game is considered not a sequel or even a real KQ game because of the 3d graphics. Heres a strange finding that I noticed in the MOE manual that it mentions the previous 7 KQ games. Which is very odd to me. If anyone can explain this to me I would be very greatful.

[Collector]

Found it:

KQ8 is a wild story.

KQ8 was in development at the same time that the company was sold. Basically, Sierra went through changes during the development of the game, and those changes are reflected in the game. During the first half of the game, I was the CEO - during the last half of the game my status shifted to "reasonably nice guy who used to work here". My way of doing things was different than the new way of doing things.

My #1 issue was always to maintain the "clarity of vision" of the game designer. A Sierra project, like KQ8, has nearly a hundred highly creative people on it. Many of these people were working at Sierra because they wanted their shot to be a game designer. It was not uncommon for everyone on a project to seek opportunities to "put their mark" on the game. This is a delicate issue. I recruited people who could be designers, and I was a huge supporter of creativity. Roberta wanted ideas from the team, but at some point, if you accept too many ideas, the product can become a muddy mess. There were dozens of people on KQ8 who could have been the designer, any of which would have made a great designer. But, unfortunately, if this tendency, on the part of developers, to add their creativity to a product, isn't carefully controlled, the product starts to veer into "design by committee". Roberta had her vision for the product, as did almost every person on the project.

When I lost control of Sierra, Roberta's ability to maintain her control over KQ8 was also eroded. The product that shipped is very different than what would have shipped had the company not been sold.

There was another issue at work on KQ8. Roberta is a perfectionist (I'm guilty of the same sin). Whenever she would play the game, she would turn in lists of hundreds of "bugs". Perfectionist can be a pseudonym for nit-picker. When a development team gets a long list, the natural tendency can be to look at some bugs as nit-picky. I always supported my designers. I wouldn't let a game go until the designer was happy (with a couple of exceptions that I regretted later), even when it seemed like we were spending lots of money to fix stuff no one cared about. It was critical to me that the game our customers played represented the game our designer wanted produced. When I left Sierra, Roberta's ability to get bugs fixed diminished.

Ultimately, the last year of KQ8 development was a tough one for Roberta. For a long time, she refused to let the game ship and there was threatened litigation floating around.

This is not to say that the game that shipped isn't a good game. Roberta was reasonably happy with it at the end - but, it reflected a much wider product vision, than Robertas alone. People other than Roberta influenced its development, in a greater capacity than in her previous products. There will be some gamers who see the change as positive, and some who wanted a Roberta product more consistent with her prior products.

There is an example I used to use on this point. One of my favorite authors is: Steven King. I also like Peter Straub. Each alone is a bestselling (mega-selling in Kings case) author. They cowrote a book; the Talisman, which bombed. Either alone could have sold plenty of copies, but together, the whole becomes less than the parts. KQ8 had wonderful people on it. This message should not be construed as being derogatory to anyone (other than that I am definitely critical of the management changes that took place.) My belief is that if the new owners had taken a couple of days to ask about "what made Sierra special" in the days after acquiring it (they could have asked me, or better yet, its customers) before dramatically changing things, things would have gone a lot smoother in the transition.

-Ken W

http://www.sierragamers.com/aspx/m/-849 ... parm2/3846

[MusicallyInspired]

Interesting read. I wonder what the pure "Ken & Roberta" version of MOE would have ended up being like.

[Collector]

What ever it might have been, I'm sure that it would have been very different.

[Fender_178]

Ya I just asked Ken and Roberta about it on the message boards on that site. I will post their answer here when they do.

[AndreaDraco]

Interesting read indeed. I hope that they will respond, Fender

[Maiandra]

I had always thought MoE would be more like QfG; an adventure game with some combat. What I played was nothing like what I had expected and it felt nothing like a King's Quest game to me. Whether it technically was or not isn't really an issue for me. They can call it whatever they want, but it felt nothing like I expected from that series. To me, MoE was not a King's Quest game in spirit, regardless of how it was labelled.

Because I'm stubborn, I did finish the game, but it was a massive disappointment. No sense of wonder or nonsense, and incredibly dark. It reminds me of how I felt about Zork: Nemesis, like they were just using the name because it was known, but with little regard for the feel of the series.

Let me just say that I'm pretty flexible when it comes to games. I won't play absolutely anything, but I have tried a number of different games of different genres. I don't let engine or graphics be the deciding factor for me, although they can enhance or detract from the experience. However, it was a bad move to take an already established series and change the feel of it to that extent. They should have done it more gradually and perhaps that's what Roberta had in mind originally. A shame she wasn't allowed to complete her vision.

[Fender_178]

Ya I totally agree. She might have used Rosella and Valanice in some form. Instead of using a picture of her and not even showing Rosella.