Colossal Cave (was Ken & Roberta Game Announcement)

[Rath Darkblade]

Hmm. I'm not a fan of the BOOMING announcer voice (e.g. "BEHOLD!" etc.) Someone on YouTube commented that he sounds like "Duff Man" from "The Simpsons", which I agree with. It's quite OTP (although it does do the job of hyping up interest!)

Ken and Roberta did a good job of getting this game out so soon. This thread started in May 2021, and the game is being released in 5 weeks. Total time from announcement to release: 20 months. Just curious: is that normal? Is it too quick? I've no idea how long games take to develop. Does anyone know?

[DeadPoolX]

Ken and Roberta did a good job of getting this game out so soon. This thread started in May 2021, and the game is being released in 5 weeks. Total time from announcement to release: 20 months. Just curious: is that normal? Is it too quick? I've no idea how long games take to develop. Does anyone know?

No, it's not normal, but this isn't a normal situation. Most development studios are either beholden to a publisher or are indie studios that may or may not have experience, but generally lack staff and funding.

In contrast, Ken and Roberta have game development experience (and can hire other people to do what they can't), don't need a publisher because they have a lot of money, and are funding the game themselves.

[Rath Darkblade]

Ah, OK. So, I guess that's why Lori and Corey (or the Two Space Guys) took much longer to release Hero-U or Space Venture? They don't have the money or management experience that Ken and Roberta have?

[DeadPoolX]

Ah, OK. So, I guess that's why Lori and Corey (or the Two Space Guys) took much longer to release Hero-U or Space Venture? They don't have the money or management experience that Ken and Roberta have?

FINANCES:
Yes, especially in the Coles' case. They severely mismanaged their Kickstarter funding and just about every step of designing Hero-U, which is why it took them so long to get the game out and had so many problems along the way. I have no idea what went on with Space Venture, so I can't comment on that.

Ken and Roberta are quite wealthy. They're not in the top 1% of rich people, but they'll never hurt for money unless they make some extraordinarily stupid decisions in life. Because they didn't need a Kickstarter or a publisher, and had the experience in game design and time management, they were able to produce a game far more quickly than most would've been able to in their place.

GAME CREATION:
One of the reasons some game designers at Sierra (like the Coles) really disliked Ken was because he understood timetables and deadlines. While creative people are great at being... well, creative, they often have difficultly staying on-task and being efficient, regardless of professional experience. That's where people like Ken come into the picture to "crack the whip" and get them focused.

Naturally, many creative individuals resent this, but it's necessary at times (although there is such a thing as over-management) or you'll eventually find that your project has become the victim of "feature creep" and you'll never get it finished because you can't concentrate on what you NEED to do because you're so distracted by what you WANT to do.

A MODERN EXAMPLE:
This isn't limited to the adventure genre, either. This happens in all genres, and a good example of this occurring right now is with developer called Nightdive Studios. They're compromised of experienced game designers and launched a Kickstarter in 2016 for a modern remake of System Shock.

Maia and I backed this Kickstarter in 2016, and the estimated date of delivery (for the digital game release and shipping the physical content that's part of our package) was December 2017. Now that's a tight timeline so we imagined the game would take a little longer, but it's almost 2023 and all Nightdive Studios has to show for it is a demo that's in the pre-alpha stages of development.

The reason? Like I said, they're experienced game designers, so they KNOW what they're doing when it comes to designing assets and programming. No, the problem is "feature creep." In all fairness, the team at Nightdive Studios has openly admitted such and apologized. Even so, an apology does not produce a game nor does it really help unless they are able to focus and work on the game without getting distracted from here on out.

Fortunately, Nightdive Studios haven't abandoned the game as they're still making regular updates on Kickstarter, but as you can imagine, most of the backers at this point feel annoyed and disappointed.

If Nightdive Studios had someone like Ken Williams at the helm, I doubt this game would be in the condition it is now. Maybe it would've been pushed back due to an overly optimistic release date, but at the very least they'd have more to show backers after 6.5 years of work than a pre-alpha demo.

[Tawmis]

Ah, OK. So, I guess that's why Lori and Corey (or the Two Space Guys) took much longer to release Hero-U or Space Venture? They don't have the money or management experience that Ken and Roberta have?

FINANCES:
Yes, especially in the Coles' case. They severely mismanaged their Kickstarter funding and just about every step of designing Hero-U, which is why it took them so long to get the game out and had so many problems along the way. I have no idea what went on with Space Venture, so I can't comment on that.
Ken and Roberta are quite wealthy. They're not in the top 1% of rich people, but they'll never hurt for money unless they make some extraordinarily stupid decisions in life. Because they didn't need a Kickstarter or a publisher, and had the experience in game design and time management, they were able to produce a game far more quickly than most would've been able to in their place.
GAME CREATION:
One of the reasons some game designers at Sierra (like the Coles) really disliked Ken was because he understood timetables and deadlines. While creative people are great at being... well, creative, they often have difficultly staying on-task and being efficient, regardless of professional experience. That's where people like Ken come into the picture to "crack the whip" and get them focused.
Naturally, many creative individuals resent this, but it's necessary at times (although there is such a thing as over-management) or you'll eventually find that your project has become the victim of "feature creep" and you'll never get it finished because you can't concentrate on what you NEED to do because you're so distracted by what you WANT to do.

Yeah, for the Coles and finances, they even went as far as putting a loan against their home, to help pay for the game development - AFTER the Kickstarter was already completed.
For SpaceVenture, a number of things happened there - one of them being Scott's own mother's health issues, where Scott moved away; then Scott developing health issues of his own.
I think that took a lot out of everything. There was other stuff that happened, but too long to go into.

But in short, it's exactly what DPX said. Ken is very straight forward. He's a businessman. You need that to keep the reigns on the sleigh, or else it's going to move at it's own pace, or veer off, distracted by shiny objects.

[notbobsmith]

GAME CREATION:
One of the reasons some game designers at Sierra (like the Coles) really disliked Ken was because he understood timetables and deadlines. While creative people are great at being... well, creative, they often have difficultly staying on-task and being efficient, regardless of professional experience. That's where people like Ken come into the picture to "crack the whip" and get them focused.

Naturally, many creative individuals resent this, but it's necessary at times (although there is such a thing as over-management) or you'll eventually find that your project has become the victim of "feature creep" and you'll never get it finished because you can't concentrate on what you NEED to do because you're so distracted by what you WANT to do.

Another example is Star Citizen. First announced in 2012, it has received to date $500 million (!) in backing. No release date and what has been released to backers is still very much an alpha build. So they have more than enough money and more than enough time. It's not a scam either. The creator is Chris Roberts who created the Wing Commander franchise, so he is well known in the industry. The problem seems to be, as DPX said, feature creep. Many of the updates are about new features being added. I guess Roberts needed someone above him to get him to commit to a timetable. There's really no excuse for not having anything released at this time. And no, I was not a backer.

[DeadPoolX]

Another example is Star Citizen. First announced in 2012, it has received to date $500 million (!) in backing. No release date and what has been released to backers is still very much an alpha build. So they have more than enough money and more than enough time. It's not a scam either. The creator is Chris Roberts who created the Wing Commander franchise, so he is well known in the industry. The problem seems to be, as DPX said, feature creep. Many of the updates are about new features being added. I guess Roberts needed someone above him to get him to commit to a timetable. There's really no excuse for not having anything released at this time. And no, I was not a backer.

Star Citizen is such a shame, because it looks amazing (based on the YouTube videos of people playing it) but it's stuck in constant state of development. The price of admission is way too high for me, but even if I wanted to spend that, I still wouldn't until it was officially released as a finished product (barring updates and expansions).

[Rath Darkblade]

Aha! I get it now. Thanks.

I've been writing all kinds of stuff (poetry, short stories, novella-length stories, novel-length etc.) for a long time, and there's a similar temptation for creative people there too.

No matter if you "pants" your story (i.e. write "by the seat of your pants", without pre-planning), or if you carefully pre-plan your story before you start, you will get ideas during the writing process for NEW (shiny! ) stuff to write.

The problem is: does the new idea make sense within, and contribute to, the overall plot? Does it make sense, character-wise? Even if the answer to both questions is yes, it might make your story too long. (What's "too long"? That's another good question. It depends on what genre you're writing - fantasy writers can usually get away with a little more).

In situations like these, there's a good bit of advice called "Kill Your Darlings". (It's less bloodthirsty than it sounds). All it means is this: reconsider your favourite bit of prose. Be ruthless. Is your favourite bit just purple prose? Does it break character? Does it contribute nothing to the plot? Delete it. Don't keep it just because you like it so much. (Don't just take my word for it - Here is what Stephen King had to say).

It sounds like a similar problem exists in the game development industry, too. You're writing/programming a game, and you're so close to releasing it for beta testing -- and then you think, "Wouldn't it be neat if..." No. No. Resist the urge. Kill Your Darlings. (Naturally, this is sometimes harder than it sounds).

[Tawmis]

https://www.polygon.com/game-awards-tga ... a-williams

[Rath Darkblade]

This immediately struck me:

Ken and Roberta Williams' text adventure gets new 'interpretation'...

Pardon me, but Ken and Roberta had no hand in the text adventure. Whoever wrote this needs to look up wikipedia.

Other than that, this sounds like a standard article about an upcoming video game.

[Tawmis]

[Rath Darkblade]

Merry Christmas back to the Williamses.

And thank you, Tawm!

[Tawmis]

Happy New Year 2023!!
Wishing you all a happy & prosperous New Year in 2023
Colossal Cave finally releases!
Launching for PC & Consoles Jan 19th
Coming to Meta Quest 2 VR soon!
In LA Times: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... al-cave-3d
Wish list on Steam:

latimes-sierra-web-ani-2-2-tl-400-system-generic-hd-mp4-avc-aac-16x9-1280x720p-24hz-4-5mbps.mp4

(4.26 MiB) Downloaded 50 times

[Rath Darkblade]

Some comments on the article:

“I’m the transmuter,” she says. “I like that word because nobody knows that word.”

It's not that hard to figure it out. I can guess, but I won't humble-brag.

Yes, there’s a cave and dwarfs and a dragon, among many other mystical elements and oddities...

*bzzzzt* Sorry, but dwarves and dragons are not mystical. They're mythical; they came out of mythology.

Mystical elements have to do with magic, alchemy, that sort of thing. Why? Because a mystic is -- to quote dictionary.com -- "a person who claims to attain, or believes in the possibility of attaining, insight into mysteries transcending ordinary human knowledge, as by direct communication with the divine." Mysticism played a huge role in the history of religion.

Everyone's heard of the Philosopher's Stone, the mystical element that could turn lead into gold. Medieval mystics, especially in the 16th and 17th century, tried to figure out the secret. Obviously they failed, but they lay down the basics of chemistry and toxicology. Even Isaac Newton, a giant in the scientific field, spent decades trying to find the Philosopher's Stone.

Sorry. I'm a budding etymologist. I care about words.

The game, in development for multiple gaming platforms, doesn’t have a release date yet.

Yes, it does!

As fondly as many remember “King’s Quest” games, they were, to be blunt, brutal.

Not just the KQ games. Space Quest was brutal too. PQ and QfG and LSL ... a little bit less, but you could still die - a LOT. And the Laura Bow games, too.

“If today’s whippersnappers don’t have that kind of patience, that’s just too bad,” Roberta says in an exaggerated, ironic tone. “It’s about time they learn.”

LOL! I agree. Three words that will help you: SAVE YOUR GAME. There's too much of this auto-save thing nowadays. I blame ZeniMax and the Elder Scrolls series.

If adventure games had been written off as irrelevant, replaced in the ’90s and 2000s by a glut of shooter-driven titles, the genre is thriving in 2022.

I remember that. Without hyperbole, it was a dark time.

As for the short video ... ! "Look mushroom".

Let's see how many things I can identify here:

1. Lower left --- looks familiar, but I'm not 100% sure. Is that the evil wizard's castle from KQ3?

2. The "club" is Lefty's from LSL1, of course, and the police cruiser is from PQ1.

3. The Gold bar and sack of $$$ are ... symbols of the Williamses wealth?

4. The boat is obvious - the Williamses have one.

5. The alligators are from KQ1.

6. The spaceship ... Space Quest?

7. I'm not sure what the crystals and the dragon are. Crystal Caves? But that's not a Sierra game. I know there's a dragon in KQ1, but I never played that far, so I don't know if it looks like that (I doubt it). Any ideas?

[Tawmis]

Some comments on the article:

“I’m the transmuter,” she says. “I like that word because nobody knows that word.”

It's not that hard to figure it out. I can guess, but I won't humble-brag.

Yes, there’s a cave and dwarfs and a dragon, among many other mystical elements and oddities...

*bzzzzt* Sorry, but dwarves and dragons are not mystical. They're mythical; they came out of mythology.
Mystical elements have to do with magic, alchemy, that sort of thing. Why? Because a mystic is -- to quote dictionary.com -- "a person who claims to attain, or believes in the possibility of attaining, insight into mysteries transcending ordinary human knowledge, as by direct communication with the divine." Mysticism played a huge role in the history of religion.
Everyone's heard of the Philosopher's Stone, the mystical element that could turn lead into gold. Medieval mystics, especially in the 16th and 17th century, tried to figure out the secret. Obviously they failed, but they lay down the basics of chemistry and toxicology. Even Isaac Newton, a giant in the scientific field, spent decades trying to find the Philosopher's Stone.
Sorry. I'm a budding etymologist. I care about words.

Thankfully you won't humble-brag.....!

The game, in development for multiple gaming platforms, doesn’t have a release date yet.

Yes, it does!

Probably not as of August 25, 2022 when the article was published.

As fondly as many remember “King’s Quest” games, they were, to be blunt, brutal.

Not just the KQ games. Space Quest was brutal too. PQ and QfG and LSL ... a little bit less, but you could still die - a LOT. And the Laura Bow games, too.

While it's true, every Sierra game was programmed with death... PQ was often avoidable, if you followed the process; LSL was avoidable if you were logical; SQ was brutal, because that was half the fun; QfG I don't think counts, because as an RPG style game, any encounter can be death... but King's Quest... those damn stairs. Each game seemed to have'em too.

As for the short video ... ! "Look mushroom".
Let's see how many things I can identify here:
1. Lower left --- looks familiar, but I'm not 100% sure. Is that the evil wizard's castle from KQ3?
2. The "club" is Lefty's from LSL1, of course, and the police cruiser is from PQ1.
3. The Gold bar and sack of $$$ are ... symbols of the Williamses wealth?
4. The boat is obvious - the Williamses have one.
5. The alligators are from KQ1.
6. The spaceship ... Space Quest?
7. I'm not sure what the crystals and the dragon are. Crystal Caves? But that's not a Sierra game. I know there's a dragon in KQ1, but I never played that far, so I don't know if it looks like that (I doubt it). Any ideas?