Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

[DeadPoolX]

Maia and I finally watched Picard (well, we just finished the first season and will be starting on the second season tonight) and I have to say that despite all the negative commentary — on here and some other places — we absolutely loved it!

Was it different than other Trek shows? Yeah, but it was still Star Trek at its core, just it focused far more on individuals (without any of them being a "Mary Sue" or "Gary Stu") and their complexities than space exploration. Really, that's what the show was about: people are complex and at what point does artificial life because "real life" and get the same rights as any other being in the Federation?

I really like the new "crew" (and I put crew in quotes because none of them are officially Picard's crew, they're just there because they share similar goals and interests, and are loyal to Picard himself), especially Raffi and Rios. Those two are just cool and work well together; additionally, it was a nice surprise to see that Rios is genuinely a nice guy unlike the majority of private ship captains you see in sci-fi who're jerks, or at least start out as jerks and eventually warm up. I also liked how Rios' ship was clean, tidy, and in great condition. It was nice to see someone who actually cares about their surroundings and takes pride in keeping an orderly ship, which is different from most sci-fi where captains in his position have ships that are dirty and practically falling apart.

(NOTE: I realize that Starfleet ships are usually in pristine working order, but those usually have medium-to-large crews who're overseeing the management of every little detail to keep up with Starfleet regulations. A private ship captain has no such requirements and generally has a much smaller crew, if any at all.)

I like Elnor (he's young, brash, and way too eager to help, but somehow it works for him without being annoying) and it was nice to see Seven-of-Nine again (without her ridiculous catsuit from VOY), among other characters from TNG such as Riker, Troi, Hugh, and Data (in an off-beat sort of way).

The EMH, ENH, EEH, and EHH that Rios has — that look all like him, but each have a ridiculously over-the-top stereotypical accents, such as the EEH being Scottish and making no sense when he speaks — are absolutely hilarious, especially in the scene where they're all together and Raffi is trying to get them to be coherent for a moment so she can gain some useful info to help Picard.

I never found the show preachy or attempting to drive home a socio-political message. Maybe I somehow missed it, but I was watching pretty carefully and just waiting for some nonsense "woke" drivel to seep in, but it never happened... or at least, I didn't notice it, which would mean that Star Trek was being as preachy as it's always been by hiding messages within its narrative without beating the audience over the head.

I didn't notice the show being dark or dystopian (as some have claimed). Was it quite as hopeful and optimistic as most of the previous shows? No, but the underlying theme was still far more optimistic than other sci-fi available and most shows in general. If you look at what's offered on Netflix, Amazon Prime, Crave, Hulu, and most other streaming platforms... almost all of it is exceptionally dark, depressing, and full of crime, drug runners, murder, and rape, or it's just cheap horror. So comparatively-speaking, Picard was a breath of fresh air.

Is this my favorite Star Trek show? No, but mostly because I don't have a "favorite" since all of them (I haven't watch Strange New Worlds yet, so I can't realistically comment on it) have good and bad points in their own way (yes, even Discovery had a few good parts in it) and how much I enjoy each really depends on a number of factors, some of which are beyond the scope of any of the shows themselves.

Honestly, the most depressing thing about the show was seeing how old everyone's become because in my head they still look like they do in TNG or at least some of the earlier TNG films, like First Contact. Patrick Stewart in particular looks really old (because he is!) and it's a little sad.

I'm a bit worried about Picard season 2 and how they'll match the same impact that season 1 had. In some ways, I'd have preferred that Picard be a limited series and instead ended with Picard's death as it would've been a fitting send off for him. At the very least, it would've been far better than the way Kirk died in Generations, which was ridiculous and quite frankly, insulting to the character.

[notbobsmith]

They animated another episode, this time of Voyager:
It's from the episode "Threshold", arguably the worst episode in all of Star Trek. I do love the comedic music at the end which offsets the horrifying implication of the episode's conclusion that the actual episode glosses over.

[Tawmis]

Wow.

Just watched the final episode for season 1 of STRANGE NEW WORLD... and man, it's freaking great!

[notbobsmith]

Wow.

Just watched the final episode for season 1 of STRANGE NEW WORLD... and man, it's freaking great!

I really enjoyed the whole season. And the final episode does actually give a lot more context as to why Spock is that loyal to Pike in TOS's "The Menagerie".

[Tawmis]

I really enjoyed the whole season. And the final episode does actually give a lot more context as to why Spock is that loyal to Pike in TOS's "The Menagerie".

Yeah - so, my exposure to Star Trek is the original (though I barely remember much of it; my father would watch it) - and then the movies.
I never watched any of the others (except random here and there).
The entire reason I decided to even give Strange New World a try, was because of the actor who plays Pike.
He was the main actor on the show HELL ON WHEELS, which I absolutely loved.

So when ye say "TOS" - I assume, "The Original Series"?

[DeadPoolX]

So when ye say "TOS" - I assume, "The Original Series"?

TOS = The Original Series
TNG = The Next Generation
DS9 = Deep Space Nine
VOY = Voyager
ENT = Enterprise
DIS = Discovery (although I'd barely rate this show canon considering how off-the-rails the characters behave and anachronistically advanced the technology seems to be for a pre-TOS show)

I imagine Strange New Worlds will end up being "SNW" because the shows with multi-part subtitles use initialisms whereas the shows with single-word subtitles use only the first three letters of the name.

I also skipped the non-main Star Trek shows, such as The Animated Series, Lower Decks, Short Treks, Prodigy, or Picard. These shows in particular seem to produce some very polarizing opinions, as I've met relatively few people who're in the middle and don't really, really like or really, really hate one of these shows.

[notbobsmith]

I really enjoyed the whole season. And the final episode does actually give a lot more context as to why Spock is that loyal to Pike in TOS's "The Menagerie".

Yeah - so, my exposure to Star Trek is the original (though I barely remember much of it; my father would watch it) - and then the movies.
I never watched any of the others (except random here and there).
The entire reason I decided to even give Strange New World a try, was because of the actor who plays Pike.
He was the main actor on the show HELL ON WHEELS, which I absolutely loved.

So when ye say "TOS" - I assume, "The Original Series"?

If you get a chance, it's worth (re)watching "The Menagerie" Parts 1 and 2. The original series should be on Paramount+, right? It's the only appearance of Captain Pike (and Number One) and it puts what he knows is going to happen to him in context.

[Collector]

[Rath Darkblade]

I'm confused. What does Indiana Jones have to do with SW or ST?

[Tawmis]

I'm confused. What does Indiana Jones have to do with SW or ST?

So.

You've not seen Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back or Star Wars: Return of the Jedi to get the reference, I take it?

Harrison Ford plays Han Solo, who gets put in carbonite - the bottom part of the image.
Harrison Ford plays Indiana Jones, the top part of the image.
So it's Harrison Ford looking at Harrison Ford.

[DeadPoolX]

I'm confused. What does Indiana Jones have to do with SW or ST?

So.

You've not seen Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back or Star Wars: Return of the Jedi to get the reference, I take it?

Harrison Ford plays Han Solo, who gets put in carbonite - the bottom part of the image.
Harrison Ford plays Indiana Jones, the top part of the image.
So it's Harrison Ford looking at Harrison Ford.

Rath is one of those extremely rare people who's never seen a Star Wars film (any of them) all the way through. And I say "all the way through" because I recall Rath stating he once saw a few minutes of ROTJ — without having seen the previous two films, so whatever he saw was completely out of context — as a kid and that's it.

[Tawmis]

I'm confused. What does Indiana Jones have to do with SW or ST?

So.
You've not seen Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back or Star Wars: Return of the Jedi to get the reference, I take it?
Harrison Ford plays Han Solo, who gets put in carbonite - the bottom part of the image.
Harrison Ford plays Indiana Jones, the top part of the image.
So it's Harrison Ford looking at Harrison Ford.

Rath is one of those extremely rare people who's never seen a Star Wars film (any of them) all the way through. And I say "all the way through" because I recall Rath stating he once saw a few minutes of ROTJ — without having seen the previous two films, so whatever he saw was completely out of context — as a kid and that's it.

Rath. What is wrong with you?

Go watch the Star Wars movies (At least: A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi!)

[Rath Darkblade]

Meh. I just don't enjoy anything to do with space. I know enough about the science of trying to live in space, that if I tried watching SW or ST, I'd end up critiquing the thing (or rolling my eyes at it) and not enjoying it.

The only space-related things I've genuinely enjoyed were some of Asimov's locked-room mysteries (in spaaace! ) and "Spaceballs" (which I watched last year, and got all the little SW references). "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate!"

Actually, I think I do remember watching TESB as a kid -- possibly as long ago as 1981, when it was on TV. I remember being terrified when Darth Vader cut off Luke's hand (hey, I wasn't in school at the time yet). But then David Prowse (sorry, Luke) falls hundreds of feet ---- and survives without a scratch. How does that work? IRL, he'd probably hit his head on something. (Yes, I know; if that happened it'd be the end of the franchise)

[DeadPoolX]

Meh. I just don't enjoy anything to do with space. I know enough about the science of trying to live in space, that if I tried watching SW or ST, I'd end up critiquing the thing (or rolling my eyes at it) and not enjoying it.

The only space-related things I've genuinely enjoyed were some of Asimov's locked-room mysteries (in spaaace! ) and "Spaceballs" (which I watched last year, and got all the little SW references). "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate!"

Actually, I think I do remember watching TESB as a kid -- possibly as long ago as 1981, when it was on TV. I remember being terrified when Darth Vader cut off Luke's hand (hey, I wasn't in school at the time yet). But then David Prowse (sorry, Luke) falls hundreds of feet ---- and survives without a scratch. How does that work? IRL, he'd probably hit his head on something. (Yes, I know; if that happened it'd be the end of the franchise)

What I don't understand is how you can suspend your disbelief for fantasy, but not science fiction. How is conjuring fireballs out of thin air and hurling them at an enemy somehow okay, yet sci-fi not adhering to every realistic facet of space travel not okay?

[Tawmis]

Meh. I just don't enjoy anything to do with space. I know enough about the science of trying to live in space, that if I tried watching SW or ST, I'd end up critiquing the thing (or rolling my eyes at it) and not enjoying it.
Actually, I think I do remember watching TESB as a kid -- possibly as long ago as 1981, when it was on TV. I remember being terrified when Darth Vader cut off Luke's hand (hey, I wasn't in school at the time yet). But then David Prowse (sorry, Luke) falls hundreds of feet ---- and survives without a scratch. How does that work? IRL, he'd probably hit his head on something. (Yes, I know; if that happened it'd be the end of the franchise)

So - when it comes to reading, I can't get into Sci-Fi books.
And yet, I have no problem with Sci-Fi movies.

However, that said - in regards to Luke falling "hundreds" of feet. He actually doesn't fall hundreds of feet. He slides hundreds of feet, yes.
And not a scratch?

Granted, most of that is from his battle with Vader.

But how does he survive?

How does every hero survive the impossible?

Even in fantasy.

You could even say - Luke may have used The Force, to slow himself down - as he slid through the tunnel things in Cloud City, before being dumped out - and grabbing the antenna thing.

As DPX said - how is using lightsaber different than flaming swords?
How is hurling lightning different than hurling fireballs?
How is warp drive any different than dimension doors/portals?

All Sci-fi is is fantasy with technology, to explain what's being done, really.