Adventures that force you to do bad things.

[Rakeesh]

Warning: the topic of this thread discusses to the puzzles of several games, and their outcomes, therefore it contains spoilerzzz.

Recently it occurred to me that several adventure game pose some challenges to you, and you have to be a very naughty, bad boy (it's a boy usually) in order to overcome them.

Such challenges have to do mostly with items that you may need, and unfortunately are guarded by annoying people, so that you have to create a diversion and 'borrow' or steal them.

Of course, the circumstances are such that water down the evil of your deed: usually you have a noble mission to complete ('the ends justify the means' argument); usually the sufferers have been annoying, grumpy, arrogant, and generally less-than-good so they deserve what you did to them and sometimes they are old people who are oblivious of what just happened, so that they just won't miss what you just took from them; and usually there is a bitter humorous scent when you imagine the outcome.

An early example is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, where if you don't have enough Marks to buy a zeppelin ticket...
you can distract a man in the airport and have Indy or his dad steal his ticket from his pocket. It isn't as bad as it seems, since that man is rude and shoos you away when you try talking to him, and after all you must save the world

Another example is the storekeeper from the first Monkey Island...
You have to send him away in order to steal a credit note from him in order to buy a ship from Stan. The credit not says specifically that the storekeeper is accountable for the holder of the credit. Yes, the storekeeper is a bad character who likes to insult you and be grumpy all the time. So it is fun just to imagine his face when Stan gets to him and asks for his money.

Another example from the second Monkey Island when Stan...
must be sealed inside a coffin. Ok, Stan is an annoying character, an immoral merchant and it is funny just to see his unstopping comments while he is inside the coffin But still... isn't it a bit too much?

Neither the Storekeeper or Stan are enemies or "evil" characters. They are not LeChuck or his henchmen. It is perfectly OK for me to punish evil characters/enemies such as by pushing the witch Dalia in her boiling pot but such 'neutral' characters have to suffer simply because they stand in your way.

Another example is when you have to cheat in a game or contest in order to win a useful item. Such is the spitting contest in MI2, the beauty contest in Day of the Tentacle, and the diving contest in MI3. And not to mention cruelty to animals: You have to abuse a couple of monkeys in the MI games; in The Dig, you have to kick an (occupied) bird nest simply because it was built on a device; and in a couple of games you have to freeze a rodent

Other things that annoyed me are instances when I had to use a bone from a human skeleton (eg. to give to a dog), or fooling someone who asks something by giving him a substitute (the blind Deadeye Dave in MI4). Oh and there was that sick puzzle in Runaway where you must make a coffee out of ancient Mayan coffee beans.

Not to mention the whole voodoo sidequest in MI2.

Now I am thinking of it, such puzzles qualify as black humor, which is acceptable, but some strike me as bad taste. And they are seen mostly in LucasArts games; Sierra games in that matter are more family friendly, with the occasional exceptions of course (eg. keep the pimp occupied in LSL1 so that you don't pay him; or the Thief in QfG).

How have you felt on such puzzles? Anyone which you judged as being bad taste? And would you think that such puzzles can 'teach' wrong things to minors?

[Datadog]

One of the key rules in adventure games is "take anything that isn't nailed down." That should already tell us a lot right there.

I agree LucasArts games are a lot more mischief-oriented. But then they also create characters who are more geared towards flexible morality when things are at stake. Pirates, bikers, travel agents, etc. How did Bernard put it in "Day in the Tentacle?" Oh right - "To save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs."

Then you have Sierra characters who will often step back from confrontations and solve their problems more diplomatically. They do have rare instances of theft and the occasionally grave-robbing under their belt - but aside from the skewed moral compass of Larry Laffer and Roger Wilco's questionable survival skills, most of the Sierra family tends to steer away from trouble-making.

[AndreaDraco]

Then you have Sierra characters who will often step back from confrontations and solve their problems more diplomatically. They do have rare instances of theft and the occasionally grave-robbing under their belt - but aside from the skewed moral compass of Larry Laffer and Roger Wilco's questionable survival skills, most of the Sierra family tends to steer away from trouble-making.

And Gabriel.

[El Ravager]

"I know, we can use this credit card!"

[BBP]

I had that problem in Phantas 2, having to let Curtis cheat on his girlfriend.. And in Toonstruck, killing the vulture. In Grim Fandango: grinding the human bone. In GK3: taunting that poor kitty. Phantas 2 was the worst, ruined the game for me.

[Rakeesh]

How could I forget? In Larry 5 you have to snatch a coin from a tray for the poor. Later you find a forgotten green card and snatch it too. As the narration says: 'You feel remorse, but only for a moment'.

[BBP]

Not sure how you play that game, but that card wasn't forgotten.
You are supposed to ring the greencard company first and they'll tell you they'll leave the green card on the trash can. Since LSL5 has a lot of those puzzles which will get solved anyway (only true way of getting stuck is by forgetting a phone number) it's very easy to miss such stuff.
In LSL5 you also surrender someone else's cash and credit card to Michelle Milken.
I also feel bad about re-directing that camera so the ladies' shower gets on the security screens in LSL6. That's just wrong.

[Rath Darkblade]

Can't you simply re-re-direct the camera to somewhere else afterwards?

Then again, you're talking about a game that rewards digging in trash cans, stealing candy from hookers (LSL1) and bribing a maitre 'd (as Larry, in LSL3). Then again, Larry is hardly held up as a paragon of virtue in the first place, and the game often gets back at him (and then some!)

The thief in the QfG games usually has to do things that are morally questionable, but that's just the nature of his profession. Sometimes, as the thief, the only way forward is to do morally questionable things for the right reason - for instance, stealing either the Drum of Magic or the Spear of Death (or both) in QfG3, and returning them to their rightful owners, or breaking into the Burgomeister's office in QfG4 to release Davy. More often, though, the thief gets to indulge in thievery for its own sake - which leads to such acts as breaking into Nicolai's house in QfG4, just so you can steal a few miserable kopeks, which you don't need anyway.

[Maiandra]

The thief in the QfG games usually has to do things that are morally questionable, but that's just the nature of his profession. Sometimes, as the thief, the only way forward is to do morally questionable things for the right reason - for instance, stealing either the Drum of Magic or the Spear of Death (or both) in QfG3, and returning them to their rightful owners, or breaking into the Burgomeister's office in QfG4 to release Davy. More often, though, the thief gets to indulge in thievery for its own sake - which leads to such acts as breaking into Nicolai's house in QfG4, just so you can steal a few miserable kopeks, which you don't need anyway.

Often I liked to open things and break into people's houses more for curiosity than because I wanted their stuff. I don't usually steal people's last few coins or items, since it makes me feel guilty. If they're wealthy or they stole the item from someone else to begin with, then I don't feel bad.

[Rakeesh]

The Hero's Companion in QfG explains that the Thief's superior and higher motive is to make people understand the vanity of material possessions

[Maxor127]

The thief in the QfG games usually has to do things that are morally questionable, but that's just the nature of his profession. Sometimes, as the thief, the only way forward is to do morally questionable things for the right reason - for instance, stealing either the Drum of Magic or the Spear of Death (or both) in QfG3, and returning them to their rightful owners, or breaking into the Burgomeister's office in QfG4 to release Davy. More often, though, the thief gets to indulge in thievery for its own sake - which leads to such acts as breaking into Nicolai's house in QfG4, just so you can steal a few miserable kopeks, which you don't need anyway.

Often I liked to open things and break into people's houses more for curiosity than because I wanted their stuff. I don't usually steal people's last few coins or items, since it makes me feel guilty. If they're wealthy or they stole the item from someone else to begin with, then I don't feel bad.

Me too, kinda. I liked to play the thief because I felt like I was seeing more of the game and could get into places other characters couldn't.

[Datadog]

And it's good practice too!

You know, for all the houses you're going to break into for practice in the next game.