7/11
7/11
I'm about to install these old classics, but I wanted some opinions on whether to run them in DOSBox, ScummVM, or directly through Windows? Are there any differences? I'd like to play without needing the cds if possible, but I want to hear the red book audio as well. Also are there any patches or anything else I need to be aware of before running them? I just want to be sure I get the most out of these gems, and be able to play them as they were meant to be played.
-
MusicallyInspired
- Village Elder
- Posts: 3143
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:46 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Manitoba, Canada
- Contact:
Re: 7/11
DOSBox all the way. Unless you want the KQ6Win experience (hi-res portraits and GUI), then play with ScummVM for that game. Collector's fantastic installers already do all the work for you and patch the games up nice. Shortcuts and all, running on DOSBox, etc all ready for you to just click to play.
01010100 01110010 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01010100 01001000 00110001
Re: 7/11
Edit, I started to respond before you specified the games and got called away for a while in the middle of it, so the following is more generalized than what you were looking for, but still may be of some use. Though I have both games, I have never tried either in ScummVM, so have no opinion of how well they play in it. It does not take that long to set it up in either, so you can try both to see which you like better.
It depends on the game. Any DOS game is best played through DOSBox. The NTVDM is a pretty crappy way to play DOS games and does little to shield you from timer and compatibility issues. You would also need to install a sound emulator like the no longer supported VDMSound. Windows x64 does not even include the NTVDM. The only time that I consider using ScummVM is when there is some compelling reason beyond simple compatibility issues. There are few Sierra games where the Windows version is desirable over the DOS version. In most cases the Windows games were hasty ports of the DOS versions. Shivers, Shivers 2 and Mixed-up Mother Goose Deluxe were about the only Windows only SCI games, but these are not yet supported by ScummVM. There are a couple of the SCI games that can be argued that the Windows game is desirable over the DOS, but KQ6 is currently the only one of those that is supported by ScummVM.
While there are many built in Audio options in ScummVM, sound is easier to setup in DOSBox. For Redbook audio games, ScummVM does have certain advantages. You can use FLAC encoding for lossless audio and DOSBox is limited to mostly OGG. Mounting the ripped tracks in DOSBox can sometimes be a bit involved where just the presence of the ripped track in the game's folder is all you have to do to get it to work in ScummVM. The Coktel Vision Redbook audio games can have some timer issues in NTVDM and in DOSBox. I think that Coktel Vision must have used some undocumented behavior of MSCDEX that is not fully supported in the NTVDM's version of it, nor at least in the past by DOSBox, though I have not tested it for some time.
ScummVM also often takes liberties with the games, forcing graphical and audio "enhancements" as defaults. With DOSBox you can see the games in their unadulterated glory as the defaults. One of the biggest draw backs of ScummVM is that, though the supported games list keeps growing, most games have to be RE'd and added one by one, where as DOSBox supports, if not most, at least a very large number of DOS games. So for DOS games, the overwhelming choice in most cases is simply DOSBox.
Windows games are another kettle of fish. The 16-bit games will not run natively on x64 and several of the 9x era games have compatibility issues on modern Windows. Some of these can be made to run with compatibility fixes using the Application Compatibility Toolkit (as I have done with couple of my installers for Windows games) or by directly modifying the executable by dissecting it and editing it via a hex editor. Examples of this can be found with jafa's Squirt the Cat installers and Aroenai's efforts with Mask of Eternity.
For the remaining games that any of the above solutions do not work, the only remaining option for modern machines is an emulator/virtualizer. I consider this an option of last resort and is useless for me for my installers as I can't package old Windows in my installers and be legally able to distribute them. If Microsoft freewared Win3x I would consider packaging it in an installer for use in DOSBox for the 16-bit Windows only games, but MS has not done so. I quit making installers for 16-bit Windows games when I moved on to x64. 32-bit Windows is becoming dated. Most copies of Windows 7 sold are x64 and expect this to be even more so with Windows 8, if it even has a 32- bit variant.
It depends on the game. Any DOS game is best played through DOSBox. The NTVDM is a pretty crappy way to play DOS games and does little to shield you from timer and compatibility issues. You would also need to install a sound emulator like the no longer supported VDMSound. Windows x64 does not even include the NTVDM. The only time that I consider using ScummVM is when there is some compelling reason beyond simple compatibility issues. There are few Sierra games where the Windows version is desirable over the DOS version. In most cases the Windows games were hasty ports of the DOS versions. Shivers, Shivers 2 and Mixed-up Mother Goose Deluxe were about the only Windows only SCI games, but these are not yet supported by ScummVM. There are a couple of the SCI games that can be argued that the Windows game is desirable over the DOS, but KQ6 is currently the only one of those that is supported by ScummVM.
While there are many built in Audio options in ScummVM, sound is easier to setup in DOSBox. For Redbook audio games, ScummVM does have certain advantages. You can use FLAC encoding for lossless audio and DOSBox is limited to mostly OGG. Mounting the ripped tracks in DOSBox can sometimes be a bit involved where just the presence of the ripped track in the game's folder is all you have to do to get it to work in ScummVM. The Coktel Vision Redbook audio games can have some timer issues in NTVDM and in DOSBox. I think that Coktel Vision must have used some undocumented behavior of MSCDEX that is not fully supported in the NTVDM's version of it, nor at least in the past by DOSBox, though I have not tested it for some time.
ScummVM also often takes liberties with the games, forcing graphical and audio "enhancements" as defaults. With DOSBox you can see the games in their unadulterated glory as the defaults. One of the biggest draw backs of ScummVM is that, though the supported games list keeps growing, most games have to be RE'd and added one by one, where as DOSBox supports, if not most, at least a very large number of DOS games. So for DOS games, the overwhelming choice in most cases is simply DOSBox.
Windows games are another kettle of fish. The 16-bit games will not run natively on x64 and several of the 9x era games have compatibility issues on modern Windows. Some of these can be made to run with compatibility fixes using the Application Compatibility Toolkit (as I have done with couple of my installers for Windows games) or by directly modifying the executable by dissecting it and editing it via a hex editor. Examples of this can be found with jafa's Squirt the Cat installers and Aroenai's efforts with Mask of Eternity.
For the remaining games that any of the above solutions do not work, the only remaining option for modern machines is an emulator/virtualizer. I consider this an option of last resort and is useless for me for my installers as I can't package old Windows in my installers and be legally able to distribute them. If Microsoft freewared Win3x I would consider packaging it in an installer for use in DOSBox for the 16-bit Windows only games, but MS has not done so. I quit making installers for 16-bit Windows games when I moved on to x64. 32-bit Windows is becoming dated. Most copies of Windows 7 sold are x64 and expect this to be even more so with Windows 8, if it even has a 32- bit variant.
01000010 01111001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101101 01100101 00100001
Re: 7/11
11th Hour works well in DOSBox with a regular DOSBox install: it even runs better than it did on my period computer. I couldn't get the 7th Guest to work with DOSBox (so I turn to the CD-i which at least has a playable microscope puzzle). Checked the DOSBox website and they suggest working with ISOs.
There's a new script around: PHANTASMAGORIA - A Puzzle Of Flesh! Check the Script Party topic in the Bard's Forum!
Skip to new scripts
Skip to new scripts
Re: 7/11
I think 7th Guest played really choppy for me in DOSBox from what I remember. I can't remember if I tried it in ScummVM or not. I'm pretty sure I did and must've had some problem because I didn't continue using it. But I did somehow manage to get it working natively in Windows 7 with the Windows patches, and it ran good.
-
envisge0ne
- Sierra Veteran
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:21 pm
Re: 7/11
I run 7th Guest through ScummVM and 11th Hour through DOSBox. Both run just fine for me. Using Windows 7
Re: 7/11
01000010 01111001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101101 01100101 00100001
Re: 7/11
Nice Collector, I just tried it out and the game is running great in ScummVM..Just before you posted, I installed both games and ran them in DOSBox and native Windows as well..They run great either way..ScummVM may be a tad smoother than DOSBox for 7G..Apparently 11th Hour is not yet supported by Scumm..In the end I'm going with ScummVM for 7th and DOSBox for 11th..Thanks everybody for the replies.
Re: 7/11
At least the 11th Hour is not as troublesome as the 7th Guest.
01000010 01111001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101101 01100101 00100001