Comic Book Discussion (was Marvel Super Hero Stuff.)

[Tawmis]

Found some cool stuff on Marvel's site, so I figured I'd make a single, all encompassing thread for it, for anyone interested, rather than clutter up the forums.

It's almost Spider-Man's birthday.
https://www.marvel.com/articles/culture ... ebby-award

Free Digital Comics from Marvel:
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/ ... ok-stories


How to draw Captain Marvel:



How to Draw Captain America:


How to draw Wolverine:


How to draw Iron Man:


How to Draw Black Widow:


How to Draw Deadpool (*) -


* Disclaimer: This does not mean how to draw DPX on the forum.


Cool Black Window Funko short:

[Tawmis]

Figured I'd just shove this in this thread - rather than make a new one.

Marvel is releasing a new monthly called "X-Men Legends" - and I am excited for it (I've stopped collecting comics now for almost a year; except for two books - both of which are a limited series). But I may pick up X-Men Legends. Essentially a lot of writers back in the day were weaving big stories - where something happened (they left the book, new creative direction, etc.) - and the stories never got told. Marvel is allowing these writers to step back in time and tell these stories now.

The first two issues - if you're familiar with X-Men deal with "The Third Summers Brother" - a story Fabian started, but never got to finish, due to him leaving the book. It focused on a character called "Adam-X" which he'd just introduced in an annual and was laying down the pieces. Well this was back in mid 1990's - and these days, Adam-X is often a "joke" character because his hero name was "X-Treme" (not the best, admittedly, but at the time they were dishing out characters like X-Cutioner, also... so,... a product of the time). Well people - to this day focus on how he was the "symbol" of the 90s - and it's true - he's literally covered in blades.

Anyway - I am looking forward to it.

But though I'd share this amazing variant wrap around cover of the first issue.

[DeadPoolX]

Well people - to this day focus on how he was the "symbol" of the 90s - and it's true - he's literally covered in blades.

If he were truly a product of the 90s, he'd be carrying ridiculously large guns, have pouches all over his body, and never have fully-drawn feet.

(If he were female, then instead of pouches everywhere she'd have on a skin-tight costume with an impossibly small waist, making sure to contort her body in ways that'd mean a broken back in the real world.)

Unless you were a comic book reader back in the 90s — which Tawmis and I were — you wouldn't get those references, especially the one about the feet. That one refers to a specific artist in particular, but his lack of ability to properly draw feet (or human anatomy in general) has led to his drawings becoming something a modern joke.

The 90s in general was a joke. It was obsessed with anti-heroes, blood, and sex. Given that the Comics Code Authority was losing its... well, authority to the point of many comics not even bothering with it at all, I guess comic artists and writers went nuts for a while.

[Tawmis]

Well people - to this day focus on how he was the "symbol" of the 90s - and it's true - he's literally covered in blades.

If he were truly a product of the 90s, he'd be carrying ridiculously large guns, have pouches all over his body, and never have fully-drawn feet.
(If he were female, then instead of pouches everywhere she'd have on a skin-tight costume with an impossibly small waist, making sure to contort her body in ways that'd mean a broken back in the real world.)
Unless you were a comic book reader back in the 90s — which Tawmis and I were — you wouldn't get those references, especially the one about the feet. That one refers to a specific artist in particular, but his lack of ability to properly draw feet (or human anatomy in general) has led to his drawings becoming something a modern joke.
The 90s in general was a joke. It was obsessed with anti-heroes, blood, and sex. Given that the Comics Code Authority was losing its... well, authority to the point of many comics not even bothering with it at all, I guess comic artists and writers went nuts for a while.

And rest assured, Mr. Rob Liefeld, still can not draw feet. Marvel recently rehired him to do a story with a character named "Major X" which would "shake the X-Men" universe.

At the end? Major X is just a young version (early 20's) of Cable.

Wow. Shocking. Didn't see that coming from a mile away.

/end sarcasm

To be fair, Adam-X was pretty "X-Treme" -




But the long hair appealed to my Heavy Metal self. As did being covered in blades - reminded me of Blackie Lawless, of W.A.S.P. who used to wear half of a saw blade on his crotch area.

But what really made me like Adam-X is that in his first appearance - he single handedly took down Cable and X-Force. Mostly happy he took down Cable. While I was collecting X-Force, because I was a freak for wanting to collect anything "X" back then - I was never a fan of aforemention, pouches and guns all over, Cable.

[DeadPoolX]

Christ on a pogo stick.

I haven't seen that much cross-hatching on a character in years...

But seriously, Liefeld couldn't draw, and I say this as someone who had extensive character, landscape, and perspective drawing courses as part of his degree. At that time (2000 or so, which I guess could eventually refer to as the "turn of the century" at some point and not feel completely ridiculous doing it), they made us learn to do everything by hand before they ever let you touch a computer.

Makes me wonder what the editors at Marvel were smoking when they approved this.

Some memorable examples of his work (in this case, all of Captain America) are attached below.

[Rath Darkblade]

Wow, he still has no feet. And the angular style, strangely, reminds me of this very weird take on Looney Tunes ...



(From top to bottom: Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, Wile E. Coyote, The Roadrunner, some strange 90s love interest for Bugs, Taz Tiger).

What the people who made this forgot, of course, is that the Looney Tunes characters are distinctly NOT Marvel-style superheroes. Or drawn that way. Which makes this whole thing ridiculously stupid. I'm glad it lasted only 2 seasons.

"Of course, you know, this ... means war."
==========================================
*looks at that first picture in DPX's post* Holy jumping beans on a trampoline. Captain America still has no feet. And why is he so short?

[Tawmis]

One of the most famous was when he took a title "New Mutants" and turned it into X-Force - and made a wrap around cover for the first issue. Clearly, avoiding the need to draw feet.



That said:

According to the most recently available data, the best-selling American single-issue comic of all time was X-Men #1, which was published in 1991 and has since sold almost 8.2 million copies. Marvel X-Force #1, which also came out in 1991, ranks in second place with around five million copies sold.

So we "X" fan boys back then didn't care too much about the lack of feet.

But the 90s was also the height of "The Collector" phase (not to be confused with our own Collector) - but people who were picking up #1's of comics, in hopes of stowing it away for years - hoping it would be incredibly valuable in the future. This led to frequent reboots, foil covers, wrap around covers, 3D card covers, multiple covers of the same issue, etc etc.

Which would eventually lead to a comic book crash.

[DeadPoolX]

*looks at that first picture in DPX's post* Holy jumping beans on a trampoline. Captain America still has no feet. And why is he so short?

By "he" do you mean the black guy to the right of Captain America? Because in that picture, Cap is insanely tall.

But the 90s was also the height of "The Collector" phase (not to be confused with our own Collector) - but people who were picking up #1's of comics, in hopes of stowing it away for years - hoping it would be incredibly valuable in the future. This led to frequent reboots, foil covers, wrap around covers, 3D card covers, multiple covers of the same issue, etc etc.

Which would eventually lead to a comic book crash.

Yeah, a lot of people didn't seem to realize that the reason some comics were worth so much was because they were rare. Most people didn't keep their comics from when they were kids and the majority who managed to hang onto theirs didn't keep their comics in great shape. This meant that those few individuals with rare comics that were also in mint or near-mint condition had valuable collectibles to sell.

If everyone collected comics (like we did in the 90s) then the value plummets because there's a complete lack of scarcity. The comics industry really capitalized on this. Like Tawmis said, they released multiple cover variants for the same issue, which led to fans purchasing them. So this was good business for the companies, but not for the collector.

I was one of those misguided collectors, but in all fairness, I was 10 years-old when the 90s began, so I really didn't understand the economic nature of collectibles. When I think of all the money spent... ugh. That said, I don't regret some of the graphic novels I picked up because you can't find those anymore.

Fun Story: My dad had Fantastic Four #1 (released in 1961), which is a rare comic and probably worth a fair amount, although likely nothing compared to 1938's Action Comics #1 (first appearance of Superman) or 1939's Detective Comics #27 (first appearance of Batman). My dad also had a ton of collectible baseball cards. My dad insists that his mother — my grandmother — tossed out all of his comics and baseball cards, to which she denies ever doing anything of the sort.

Given that my grandmother is currently 94 years-old, it's entirely possible she doesn't remember throwing out those comics and baseball cards, if she actually did do it as my dad says she did. That said, my grandmother may be in her mid-90s at the moment, but she doesn't show the slightest sign of age-related dementia. I think my grandmother's interest in computers (she knows more about them than many 20-somethings and 30-somethings I've met) has helped keep her mind fit.

[Tawmis]

Yeah, a lot of people didn't seem to realize that the reason some comics were worth so much was because they were rare. Most people didn't keep their comics from when they were kids and the majority who managed to hang onto theirs didn't keep their comics in great shape. This meant that those few individuals with rare comics that were also in mint or near-mint condition had valuable collectibles to sell.
If everyone collected comics (like we did in the 90s) then the value plummets because there's a complete lack of scarcity. The comics industry really capitalized on this. Like Tawmis said, they released multiple cover variants for the same issue, which led to fans purchasing them. So this was good business for the companies, but not for the collector.

Exactly. Companies were "catering" to collectors by giving them what they wanted - reboots, lots of foil covers, first appearance of "Character_A" who is sure to "shake the Marvel Universe."

But what those collectors didn't know was that the comic book company was producing THOUSANDS of copies of these issues - making the chance that they will be rare... well, very rare. Because everyone had six copies of "X-Force #1."

That said, with the MCU Cinema success - things have changed as to what can make a comic valuable. For example, Rocket Raccoon's first appearance in HULK was easily found in the dollar bin before Guardians of the Galaxy movies surfaced. As soon as it did - people knew it was going to become valuable. And it was a case of rarity - Rocket was... such... an unusual character. Most people didn't think much of it. He was very much an odd, throw away character. While he officially appeared in Marvel Premier as "Rocky" - most people acknowledge Hulk as his first "official" appearance (where it's learned his name "Rocky" was short for "Rocket"). Both of those issues (Marvel Premier #7 and Hulk #271) now range in the 3 to 500 dollar range for value (for a normal copy). These comics aren't even that old - 1976 and 1982. So now the movie universe is influencing the value of comics.

I was one of those misguided collectors, but in all fairness, I was 10 years-old when the 90s began, so I really didn't understand the economic nature of collectibles. When I think of all the money spent... ugh. That said, I don't regret some of the graphic novels I picked up because you can't find those anymore.

I was Marvel Zombie - I bought every cover version of X-Men #1 - and one of each carded X-Force #1 - I was already collecting the titles back then, so it's not that I grabbed them to "collect" them only for the covers - but for the whole series. But back then I wasn't thinking of the value these might be one day - I don't think I've ever thought that - but more so "how cool these covers were."

Speaking of trades hard to find - it's incredible when trades (which are reprints of the comics, frequently) - can fetch such a high price.
But the ALPHA FLIGHT CLASSIC #1 - which reprinted the first few issues of ALPHA FLIGHT was going for $200. It's gone down since, because they recently released an ALPHA FLIGHT OMNIBUS, which also reprints those issues.
But if you go and collect the issues that it reprints - you can easily find them in the $1 bin in most stores. It's weird.

Fun Story: My dad had Fantastic Four #1 (released in 1961), which is a rare comic and probably worth a fair amount, although likely nothing compared to 1938's Action Comics #1 (first appearance of Superman) or 1939's Detective Comics #27 (first appearance of Batman). My dad also had a ton of collectible baseball cards. My dad insists that his mother — my grandmother — tossed out all of his comics and baseball cards, to which she denies ever doing anything of the sort.
Given that my grandmother is currently 94 years-old, it's entirely possible she doesn't remember throwing out those comics and baseball cards, if she actually did do it as my dad says she did. That said, my grandmother may be in her mid-90s at the moment, but she doesn't show the slightest sign of age-related dementia. I think my grandmother's interest in computers (she knows more about them than many 20-somethings and 30-somethings I've met) has helped keep her mind fit.

Chances are, she threw them away without knowing what they were.
In one of my movies, my mother did the same thing with some of my Sierra stuff.
I had a mess of letters to/from Christi Marx and others at Sierra.
I had b&w photos of Ken/Roberta, the Coles, Al Lowe, Christi Marx, the Two Guys. (The one for Al Lowe is the one he uses in his bio page - here's the one for The Two Guys, for example).
All gone.

I know I didn't throw them away, and my father had passed by the time the move happened that these vanished.

[Rath Darkblade]

*looks at that first picture in DPX's post* Holy jumping beans on a trampoline. Captain America still has no feet. And why is he so short?

By "he" do you mean the black guy to the right of Captain America? Because in that picture, Cap is insanely tall.

Oh, sorry. I thought the guy with the shield was Captain America? I'm confused.

At any rate, the really tall guy still has no feet -- just a kind of triangle instead of a foot.

[DeadPoolX]

Oh, sorry. I thought the guy with the shield was Captain America? I'm confused.

I guess you just ignored the other image I uploaded? You know, the one with the anatomically impossible chest?

Have you never seen a picture of Captain America before? That seems almost impossible. Even before the MCU he was incredibly well known, if for nothing else for that picture of him punching Hitler.

At any rate, the really tall guy still has no feet -- just a kind of triangle instead of a foot.

Thus the conversation Tawmis and I have been having, where we've been mocking Rob Liefeld (aka "the artist who couldn't draw feet to save his life").

[Tawmis]

Oh, sorry. I thought the guy with the shield was Captain America? I'm confused.

I guess you just ignored the other image I uploaded? You know, the one with the anatomically impossible chest?
Have you never seen a picture of Captain America before? That seems almost impossible. Even before the MCU he was incredibly well known, if for nothing else for that picture of him punching Hitler.

To be fair, it can get pretty confusing - especially with Rob's art. Like why is Captain America so tall and the guy with the shield barely comes up to his waist line?
And we've had Falcon with Captain America's shield too - during the time he was adopting the name.
It's getting to be like Thor's hammer - used to be only those that were worthy - well there's now been about six or seven people who have been deemed "worthy" and held the name Thor.
(Don't get me started...)

At any rate, the really tall guy still has no feet -- just a kind of triangle instead of a foot.

Thus the conversation Tawmis and I have been having, where we've been mocking Rob Liefeld (aka "the artist who couldn't draw feet to save his life").

Feet and women.
But congrats to Rob to making a killing off of his artistic style.

[notbobsmith]

I would never had guessed that first image was of Captain America. It's not just a problem of being tall (very tall) in comparison to the other character. He's very lanky, which is not the right build for him. Worse, his upper body is much too short in comparison to the length of his legs.

I've seen that second image before. How is that a human torso? What must Cap's skeleton look like?

[Tawmis]

I would never had guessed that first image was of Captain America. It's not just a problem of being tall (very tall) in comparison to the other character. He's very lanky, which is not the right build for him. Worse, his upper body is much too short in comparison to the length of his legs.

I've seen that second image before. How is that a human torso? What must Cap's skeleton look like?

This crude drawing (not Rob's but my off white and green lines) - is what I imagine Rob was trying to do. Like, it's super odd - but like his arm is SO muscular - and that's the off white line - and that Rob, somehow? - thought he had this super twirky waist line - if you try to somehow match it with how his chest is positioned.

[DeadPoolX]

According to Rob Liefeld, Cap's body and skeleton probably looks like that mess below. I've also included a good example of what Liefeld thinks women look like, which suggests to me he's never seen one in real life.