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Tawmis
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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DonaldDuckCo wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:53 pm
Tawmis wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:23 pm
DonaldDuckCo wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:33 am But when i think about it. King's Quest 7 isnt that bad. I mean its not perfect, and the beginning part is horrible. I am not gonna lie. They shouldnt have had the player start out like that.
Oh, now I am curious. What is it about it - that part in the beginning that you find so horrible and shouldn't have started like that?
Well Kings Quest 7 starts off with the most hardest puzzle in the game, then normalize it later.
It just feels like it shouldnt be the first thing to start with, but that may be just me
Which puzzle was it that was the hardest?
Collector wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:48 pm I have grown to appreciate KQ7 more than when it first came out. It seemed to turn away from all that I liked about KQ6. After all, it is a Jane Jensen game, one of my favorite game designers. And at the time, I disliked the more cartoony artwork in its effort to be more Disney like. However, Neal Grandstaff's soundtrack has really grown on me and Lorelei's writing and puzzles are good. Also, the backgrounds are really enjoyable, in spite of the fact that the sprites still fail me. Sometimes I fire up chapter 3 just to enjoy the "Bountiful Woods".
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:lol:

I kid. I do really love King's Quest VI. It is, as you said, probably the best written game in the series, hands down. And undoubtedly has the best characters in the game, that feel more... fleshed out.

But there was just something about King's Quest IV, that I have always really enjoyed (and it's not just Rosella, sure she's pretty and... Listen! Listen! It's not just her!) :lol:
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Tawmis wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:21 am
DonaldDuckCo wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:53 pm
Tawmis wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:23 pm
DonaldDuckCo wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:33 am But when i think about it. King's Quest 7 isnt that bad. I mean its not perfect, and the beginning part is horrible. I am not gonna lie. They shouldnt have had the player start out like that.
Oh, now I am curious. What is it about it - that part in the beginning that you find so horrible and shouldn't have started like that?
Well Kings Quest 7 starts off with the most hardest puzzle in the game, then normalize it later.
It just feels like it shouldnt be the first thing to start with, but that may be just me
Which puzzle was it that was the hardest?
Collector wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:48 pm I have grown to appreciate KQ7 more than when it first came out. It seemed to turn away from all that I liked about KQ6. After all, it is a Jane Jensen game, one of my favorite game designers. And at the time, I disliked the more cartoony artwork in its effort to be more Disney like. However, Neal Grandstaff's soundtrack has really grown on me and Lorelei's writing and puzzles are good. Also, the backgrounds are really enjoyable, in spite of the fact that the sprites still fail me. Sometimes I fire up chapter 3 just to enjoy the "Bountiful Woods".
Image

:lol:

I kid. I do really love King's Quest VI. It is, as you said, probably the best written game in the series, hands down. And undoubtedly has the best characters in the game, that feel more... fleshed out.

But there was just something about King's Quest IV, that I have always really enjoyed (and it's not just Rosella, sure she's pretty and... Listen! Listen! It's not just her!) :lol:
Haha good one : D

But i found the well puzzle hardest. I just struggled awhole lot before i could go further
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Tawmis wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 1:21 am
But there was just something about King's Quest IV, that I have always really enjoyed (and it's not just Rosella, sure she's pretty and... Listen! Listen! It's not just her!) :lol:
Suuure, Tawm... We all know you had a secret crush on Valanice -- the hottest (and only) QILF in Daventry. ;)
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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What is the well puzzle? *curious*

I still haven't played KQ7. Of all the KQs, it is the only one that I haven't played ... possibly because of the Disney graphics, which seem to me to go against everything I've seen so far from KQ. *shrug* Also, just the name "Ooga-Booga" is a big turn-off; it's very childish, so after the more "mature" feel of KQ6, it seems like a big step backwards.

I'm sure it's a fine game ... so maybe I should give it a chance?
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm What is the well puzzle? *curious*
They answered. There's one with the well/pool water. It is pretty difficult.
Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm I still haven't played KQ7. Of all the KQs, it is the only one that I haven't played ... possibly because of the Disney graphics, which seem to me to go against everything I've seen so far from KQ. *shrug* Also, just the name "Ooga-Booga" is a big turn-off; it's very childish, so after the more "mature" feel of KQ6, it seems like a big step backwards.
You're right. With things like crying cabbages, and characters named Stick-In-The-Mud and Bump-On-The-Log, King's Quest VI was way ahead of it's time with those very mature names!
Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm I'm sure it's a fine game ... so maybe I should give it a chance?
I am trying to remember - but I don't think you played Torin's Passage either? Was it because of the "Disney" graphics? If so, you missed out on a fantastic game there. And I am sure you played Leisure Suit Larry VII, that's pretty much the same animation style - but adult, so imagine if Disney did adult animation, and there you have it. Pretty sure you played LSL7....
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Tawmis wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:46 pm
Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm I still haven't played KQ7. Of all the KQs, it is the only one that I haven't played ... possibly because of the Disney graphics, which seem to me to go against everything I've seen so far from KQ. *shrug* Also, just the name "Ooga-Booga" is a big turn-off; it's very childish, so after the more "mature" feel of KQ6, it seems like a big step backwards.
You're right. With things like crying cabbages, and characters named Stick-In-The-Mud and Bump-On-The-Log, King's Quest VI was way ahead of it's time with those very mature names!
Oops, I'd forgot all about those. (Maybe I was trying not to remember). ;) I was rather thinking of the confrontation at the palace towards the start of the game, and the maze section, and the "infiltrate the palace" scenes towards the end.

Also, by "mature", I wasn't thinking "adult" like LSL (obviously). I was thinking, maybe, "teen"? Those scenes do a good job at keeping things tense.
Tawmis wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:46 pm
Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm I'm sure it's a fine game ... so maybe I should give it a chance?
I am trying to remember - but I don't think you played Torin's Passage either? Was it because of the "Disney" graphics? If so, you missed out on a fantastic game there. And I am sure you played Leisure Suit Larry VII, that's pretty much the same animation style - but adult, so imagine if Disney did adult animation, and there you have it. Pretty sure you played LSL7....
I haven't played Torin's Passage, but only because it wasn't available here back then. It wasn't so much the "Disney" graphics that put me off as the animal companion (Boogle, I think?). From the box art, he seemed more ... annoying ... than funny. (This is also one reason why KQ5 is my least favourite KQ).

Oddly enough, I love real animals ... just not pixelated (or CGI-fied) ones. :P
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Rath Darkblade wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:45 pm
Tawmis wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:46 pm
Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm I still haven't played KQ7. Of all the KQs, it is the only one that I haven't played ... possibly because of the Disney graphics, which seem to me to go against everything I've seen so far from KQ. *shrug* Also, just the name "Ooga-Booga" is a big turn-off; it's very childish, so after the more "mature" feel of KQ6, it seems like a big step backwards.
You're right. With things like crying cabbages, and characters named Stick-In-The-Mud and Bump-On-The-Log, King's Quest VI was way ahead of it's time with those very mature names!
Oops, I'd forgot all about those. (Maybe I was trying not to remember). ;) I was rather thinking of the confrontation at the palace towards the start of the game, and the maze section, and the "infiltrate the palace" scenes towards the end.
Also, by "mature", I wasn't thinking "adult" like LSL (obviously). I was thinking, maybe, "teen"? Those scenes do a good job at keeping things tense.
And yet, all you can name is Ooga-Booga from KQVII, without knowing much else about it. :D
Rath Darkblade wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2024 11:45 pm
Tawmis wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 8:46 pm
Rath Darkblade wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:55 pm I'm sure it's a fine game ... so maybe I should give it a chance?
I am trying to remember - but I don't think you played Torin's Passage either? Was it because of the "Disney" graphics? If so, you missed out on a fantastic game there. And I am sure you played Leisure Suit Larry VII, that's pretty much the same animation style - but adult, so imagine if Disney did adult animation, and there you have it. Pretty sure you played LSL7....
I haven't played Torin's Passage, but only because it wasn't available here back then. It wasn't so much the "Disney" graphics that put me off as the animal companion (Boogle, I think?). From the box art, he seemed more ... annoying ... than funny. (This is also one reason why KQ5 is my least favourite KQ).
Oddly enough, I love real animals ... just not pixelated (or CGI-fied) ones. :P
Lawd.

Boggle is absolutely great. He's not there to be funny. He does "cute" things - but even that's far and few between. He's more of a ... tool, for Torin to use (without giving away too much). He provides a very interesting mechanic to the game. He's nothing like Cedric. Nothing at all.

But you must love animated animals?

I know you're a fan of Brain, and his stupid side kick, Pinky?
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Rath has a way of latching onto inaccurate and overly generalized first impressions of games from little information and dismissing those games for years. Look how long he put off playing KQ6 because of his misperceptions. Yes, Al Lowe designed Torin's as a game that could be played with children, but his goal was to create a game that could be fun for both adults and children. He was very successful in that goal. It is a very fun game, even without the presence of a child to play it with.
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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I'm just surprised no one has chastised me for my scandalous "Valanice is a QILF" joke... :lol:
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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I just looked up what a QILF is. For shame, goatmeal! :lol:

Two other points:

KQ6. The only reason I finished KQ6 was because I was following a walkthrough. There's no shame in that. I kept dying because of stupid reasons. To give just one: when I reached the boatman of the Styx and had to give him a coin, I didn't have one. And I couldn't leave the screen to find one. So I was dead, dead, dead, all because of something I didn't even know I had to do.

Where was that stupid coin? It wasn't until I consulted a walkthrough that I found out: first, I had to backtrack all the way to another island, to a unnecessary maze (unnecessary because why would you walk through a maze unless you had to, or knew you had to?), to find a randomly chosen room that looked like any other room, and which had skeletons that looked just like any other skeletons ... except that one of them had a barely noticeable glint, which was the coin I needed.

Then back through the maze, back to hell ... and give Charon his coin. Now, there were definitely less arduous (and less random) ways to design that puzzle. Sierra games were great - don't get me wrong! - but seriously, some of these puzzles needed work.

After solving that puzzle (and others) the hard way, I decided: sod it. I don't mind puzzles, but puzzles should be fair. Being killed because of something that I didn't even know I had to do (and having to find it randomly too), I could use a walkthrough to circumvent all that.

As for having inaccurate and overly-generalised misperceptions? Perhaps. But the game market nowadays is overly saturated with games, each one begging to have our attention. This wasn't the case in the 80s and 90s, with brick and mortar stores. (Also, games back then were more expensive than they are now -- though back then, we probably couldn't afford to buy as many games as we can now, with the rise of services like Steam and GOG and others).

So after decades of having all that choice - and cheaply too - my attention span is beginning to waver. As I grow older, I have less and less time to play games (though I'm not giving up!) ;)

I will play KQ7, and Torin's Passage too. And I'll be back to give my reactions. ;)
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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goatmeal wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:40 am I'm just surprised no one has chastised me for my scandalous "Valanice is a QILF" joke... :lol:
That's because that's more acceptable than Rath's odd dislike of King's Quest VII. ;)
Collector wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 10:46 am Rath has a way of latching onto inaccurate and overly generalized first impressions of games from little information and dismissing those games for years. Look how long he put off playing KQ6 because of his misperceptions. Yes, Al Lowe designed Torin's as a game that could be played with children, but his goal was to create a game that could be fun for both adults and children. He was very successful in that goal. It is a very fun game, even without the presence of a child to play it with.
Torin's Passage to me, is up there, with like King's Quest VI in its story telling. It really feels like it could easily be an animated movie.
Rath Darkblade wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:20 pm KQ6. The only reason I finished KQ6 was because I was following a walkthrough. There's no shame in that.
No one is saying there is, to be clear. :)
Rath Darkblade wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:20 pm As for having inaccurate and overly-generalised misperceptions? Perhaps. But the game market nowadays is overly saturated with games, each one begging to have our attention. This wasn't the case in the 80s and 90s, with brick and mortar stores. (Also, games back then were more expensive than they are now -- though back then, we probably couldn't afford to buy as many games as we can now, with the rise of services like Steam and GOG and others).
So after decades of having all that choice - and cheaply too - my attention span is beginning to waver. As I grow older, I have less and less time to play games (though I'm not giving up!) ;)
I will play KQ7, and Torin's Passage too. And I'll be back to give my reactions. ;)
I can say, you may or may not like King's Quest VII (it has some very wonderful parts, but there are some very odd and sometimes difficult parts). I'm going to say, if you don't enjoy Torin's Passage, I am going to be quite surprised.

It too has some (many!) wonderful parts, but it has it's bad/boring parts that I despise (I am looking at you, Butternuts segment).
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

Post by Rath Darkblade »

Hmm. Thinking about it, over the past few days, I've come to a realization what it is with me and the KQ games. :) It's not exactly an irrational fear, dislike or hatred. I'll try to explain.

I'm guessing that many (or most?) of you have played Sierra games when young (probably with an adult - maybe an older brother, or a parent?). But for me, I didn't even know the Sierra games even existed until my early teenage years, sometime in late 1991 or so.

My introduction to Sierra came when a casual friend showed me a copy of LSL1. That's right: after getting my first PC in 1990, and playing and re-playing CGA games that came with it (like 3D-Tetris, Sokoban and Maniac Mansion), I encountered - completely by accident - my first EGA game, which was LSL1. ;)

Naturally, I asked something like "Are there any others like this...?" and, since he had a bit of a collection, he was happy to introduce me to the Quest games - especially Quest for Glory 1, Police Quest 1, and Space Quest 1. But neither he nor I played KQ, because hey - we were teenagers, and in our stupid teenage minds, KQ was a "kids' game".

A few years passed, during which I saved up and bought some of the Quest games; naturally, they were expensive, so I could afford many. Then, when I graduated from high school and enrolled in university, I found there was a "games library" which would loan out PC games you could play for a week, uninstall, and bring back. (Ah, the nineties. A different time. So innocent. Ahem). ;)

Among those games was ... drumroll ... KQ5. Yep, that was my introduction to the KQ universe. ;) I tried it out, and even beat it within the week. (IIRC, this was during the dawn of the internet -- for the public, anyway -- so hints and walkthroughs were available even then. I got stuck in some places and used a walkthrough).

I couldn't help but feel ambivalent about KQ, even then. After all, I'd already played the less family-oriented Quest games, so for me, KQ seemed ... odd ... and besides, I had my university degree (and casual / part-time jobs) to worry about.

So it wasn't until years later, when I was in my mid-to-late 20s, that I came back to KQ (when I found the KQ collection -- if I recall, KQ1 to KQ6) in a game store, and figured "What the hell, I'll give it a shot." Of course, by then, far more complex and better-looking games were appearing and vying for my attention ... but I tried KQ anyway, but couldn't make heads or tails of it. I remember wandering around Daventry in KQ1 and KQ2, getting lost or pickpocketed by dwarves and what not, and thinking "What the...? Never mind, let's try this third one. Apprentice wizard? Seems interesting." (I wasn't sure what I was expecting - maybe something like Fantasia). :P But of course, as soon as I had control in KQ3, I kept making mistakes without knowing it and being killed by Mahna-Mahna Man the wizard. :) So, after three games and no progress AT ALL, I gave up and thought: "You know what? Forget about it." :(

And that was that, until I played AGDI's remake of "Quest for Glory 2" in 2011 (which, of course, I loved). Then I noticed that they also remade KQ1, 2 and 3 ... and tried them, and loved them too ... ;) ... and that was my "re-introduction" to the King's Quest series.

After that, I played KQ4 (thanks, Tawm! :D) ... and tried re-playing KQ5 (and never got far), and slogged through KQ6 -- but I remember thinking: the amount of time I'm putting into these? Especially KQ6? This is insane. (I tried playing KQ6 in one sitting. Even with a walkthrough, that's probably not a good idea). ;) By the time I finished the one-sitting KQ6, it felt like a marathon -- like finishing Oblivion or something. :lol:

Anyway. Like I said, I don't dislike the KQ games. But I came to them WAY too late, I think. If they were games that are designed for adults to play with children (as Collector was saying), then ... since I never experienced them as a kid (or teen, as I did for the other "Quest" games), I don't have the same "nostalgia" for them. But that's OK, I can experience them for the first time now. ;)

So now it's your turn. When did you first experience the KQ games? What memories do you have of that time? Do share. :)
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Rath Darkblade wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2025 5:35 pm So now it's your turn. When did you first experience the KQ games? What memories do you have of that time? Do share. :)
I have a reverse of what you had.

My first introduction to Sierra was King's Quest 1.
I talked about it here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3323&p=44049&hilit= ... rs+#p44049
And here: viewtopic.php?t=4656

I was introduced to it, by my then best friend's father, Shawn, who was very, very, very, very, very into computers. His whole office looked like some version of the FBI - with monitors and computers everywhere.

My next game after King's Quest 1 had been Leisure Suit Larry 1 (original), which was no surprise that Shawn's dad would have that. It was after that, it was a spiral for me and my addiction to Sierra began.

That started Shawn and I down the path of playing Sierra games. We'd often go halfsies on the cost (because even back then, Sierra games were often 49.99 to 59.99 each!) - so we'd often swap back and forth either between Sierra games, or if we were playing solo, we'd swap games and save game disks, and do it that way too. But most often it was one of us spending the night at the other's and being up all night play Sierra games, then later, getting greasy Mexican food (carne asada burritos) then going back to it.

I, like you, never had kids. But I immensely still enjoyed King's Quest. Yes, it had "kid elements" with the various fairy tales (especially the first two) - but from King's Quest III onward, to me, it didn't feel like it had that kid element. It definitely got into far, far more story oriented.
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

Post by Rath Darkblade »

Interesting. (And thank you for reading my Wall of Text(TM)! I feel humbled now). :D

Yes, I know the feeling of being up all night with games ... but to me, that only happened with two games: Quest for Glory 5 and Neverwinter Nights 1 (the original, not the expansions).

I don't think I can explain logically how playing them felt, at least to me. Looking back at them now, they look and feel a bit basic. But I guess, back then, they felt as groundbreaking as KQ1 must've done, way back then.

Anyway, onward and upward to KQ7! (And then TP! Torin's Passage, not ... the other kind of TP). :P
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Re: I appreciate the Kings Quest series

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Rath Darkblade wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2025 12:51 am Interesting. (And thank you for reading my Wall of Text(TM)! I feel humbled now). :D
Yes, I know the feeling of being up all night with games ... but to me, that only happened with two games: Quest for Glory 5 and Neverwinter Nights 1 (the original, not the expansions).
I don't think I can explain logically how playing them felt, at least to me. Looking back at them now, they look and feel a bit basic. But I guess, back then, they felt as groundbreaking as KQ1 must've done, way back then.
Anyway, onward and upward to KQ7! (And then TP! Torin's Passage, not ... the other kind of TP). :P
People will like what they like. :) I may give you a difficult time about King's Quest VII or whatever, but in the end, it's all a matter of taste.
For example, plenty of people know I love cartoons. I watch (the original) Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, the Dungeons & Dragons cartoons, X-Men the Animated series, pretty much on repeat (usually go to sleep watching one of those). And plenty of these people that know me have recommended various anime shows that they love - but I just can't get into, because I don't care for the animation style. However, there's always exceptions, like I loved Battle of the Planets. And even most recently I went and saw The War of the Rohiirrim - and it is very much anime style:
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But I absolutely loved it.

But overall, never really cared for anime. No matter how much folks may praise some show or movie.

So, I hope you take no offense. We're entitled to enjoy what we enjoy! :)

(... but Torin's Passage really is great... except for the Butternuts... it's OK to absolutely hate that part...) :lol:
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