Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:01 pm
Man, I remember 2nd Ed THAC0. It took me forever to work it out. Yeah, it was painful. No wonder I gave up on D&D -- because of that.
Yeah, not only was THAC0 stupid (in hindsight), but like you, it discouraged many to play D&D because it was overly complicated.
And really, 1st and 2nd Edition D&D (I love them, because it's what got me into D&D), did not rely heavily on story or character development. It was very much "here's a dungeon, try to survive." So it was all about the dice rolling - which is still a fun aspect. But does get repetitive when you're in a dungeon, open a door, fight some goblins, loot. Go to the next door, open it, fight a troll. Loot. Open another door, fight some orcs. Loot. And never stop to wonder, "Why are these monsters huddled in all of these rooms so closely together?" Some of them made sense - goblins and orcs near one another - but they'd have some wild monsters hanging out in these ruins right next to an assortment of other monsters. You'd think they'd begin killing one another for treasure.
Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:01 pm
When 3rd Ed came along, I was older, and didn't have anyone to play with. Oh well. I still looked at the books, just for fun, but never played it.
3rd Edition was infinitely easier to understand, and build characters for, and the adventures began to focus way more on story. If there was a dungeon to go into - there was a reason, a story, and the monsters were more logically placed.
This is when my wife, Amiee, began to play - among many other wives/girlfriends that my friends had, when we began 3rd Edition.
Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:01 pm
OK, I was a bit young then, but I remember reading (much later, maybe in the mid-late 90s?) about the "Satanic Panic" and the "Moral Majority". Even then, I remember thinking: really? D&D is turning your child into a Satan worshipper?
I remember the press reporting on serial killers, and blaming all kinds of stuff for people becoming serial killers. D&D, Rock 'n roll, heavy metal music, boys wearing long hair -- even eating too much McDonalds.
Did that really happen? The McDonalds Defense? It sounds ludicrous.
It was the mid 80s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_p ... y_theories
In 1985, Patricia Pulling joined forces with psychiatrist Thomas Radecki, director of the National Coalition on Television Violence, to create B.A.D.D. (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons). Pulling and B.A.D.D. saw role-playing games generally and Dungeons & Dragons specifically as Satanic cult recruitment tools, inducing youth to suicide, murder, and Satanic ritual abuse.[43] Other alleged recruitment tools included heavy metal music, educators, child care centers, and television.[43] This information was shared at policing and public awareness seminars on crime and the occult, sometimes by active police officers.[43] None of these allegations held up in analysis or in court. In fact, analysis of youth suicide over the period in question found that players of role-playing games actually had a much lower rate of suicide than the average.[43]
I remember, because it was just as I was finishing Middle School and heading into High School. I was the perfect example - I thrive on D&D and listened to heavy metal music.
I, however, don't recall anything about McDonalds.
Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:01 pm
I can't recall ever seeing 4th Edition. I thought they skipped from 3rd to 5th Ed for some reason. (Maybe they lost the floppies).
4th Edition, like I said, was D&D's attempt to grab the market that was RAPIDLY slipping away from them in favor of MMO's (primarily World of Warcraft, since EverQuest had been around prior and hadn't really had the impact on D&D's community, as much as World of Warcraft did, though EverQuest at the time was infinitely larger in population - for a brief time). Now, I think, even to this day, World of Warcraft remains one of the largest MMOs to have existed (still exists). But 4th Edition didn't get a lot of coverage, because there wasn't a large audience for it, because their target audience were too much into World of Warcraft, so I am not surprised you never heard of 4th Edition. (I suspect they probably wish it'd been lost on floppies, as I think it's the lowest selling edition of D&D to have existed).
Rath Darkblade wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:01 pm
Was that 2nd Edition? I thought it was
1st Edition where everything was out to kill you. Vecna, Acererak, Strahd von Zarovich, Lord Soth -- iconic villains like that.
Who could ever forget Tomb of Horrors?
I've never even seen it, let alone played it, but I've heard of how lethal it was.
The difference between 1st Edition and 2nd Edition is very, very minimal. Other than in 1st Edition, some Races were also your class. Like (I'd need to dig out my books to confirm), but if you played a Dwarf - that was your race AND your class, unlike if you picked Human, you could pick a class like Fighter, Rogue, etc.
And yes, Tomb of Horrors, was specifically originally designed to TRY and kill powerful characters. That'd been it's original intent.
However, D&D in general, for 1st and 2nd Edition, was brutal in of itself. Monsters were very lethal. Some of their attacks, would cause death if you did not make the savings throw (catoblepas and medusa, are two if I remember, meeting their gaze was death if you failed the save). Nowadays, if you fail the save, you just take a bunch of damage (and unless already damaged) won't die from it. Ghasts could paralyze anyone but elves (who were immune to it), and once paralyzed every hit is a critical hit, until someone can remove the paralyzation effect. So there was a good chance, if you failed, you were about to die.
