Break The Spine.

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Rath Darkblade
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Re: Break The Spine.

Post by Rath Darkblade »

Maiandra wrote:I keep meaning to post in this thread, since I do read a lot. Having recently unpacked a box of books that my parents had at their place for some time, I found some of my favourite children's books that I kept.

I am now re-reading The Secret World of Og by Pierre Berton. :D

It's just as entertaining now as it was when I was much younger. It's actually written in a style that I think both older children and adults can enjoy. I'm going to lend it to my niece, when I'm finished. She's just about the age I was when I first read it.
That's funny you should say that. I've just finished reading another book by Pierre Berton - Flames Across the Border - the first volume of his magisterial work about the US-Canada War of 1812. ;) Definitely not for kids! :lol:
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Re: Break The Spine.

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Rath Darkblade wrote:the US-Canada War of 1812.
Just so you know, the War of 1812 was between the US and Britain. Canada's involvement was solely because it was part of the British Empire. For Briton it was just part of of its many military involvements at the time, most notably in the Napoleonic wars. While there was some action in Canada and some naval battles on the Great Lakes of note, It was a far larger conflict than just what occurred in or near Canada. There are several things that are far better known. Amongst which were:
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DeadPoolX
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Re: Break The Spine.

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Collector wrote: Just so you know, the War of 1812 was between the US and Britain. Canada's involvement was solely because it was part of the British Empire.
You'll find that most Canadians will claim it was between the US and Canada and that "Canadians burned down the White House." In fact, Canadian history seems to teach that point of view.

I'd never heard that until moving to Canada. I'd always heard it was a war between the US and Great Britain and that the "British burned down the White House." Truth be told, the White House wasn't entirely burned down; it was, however, severely damaged and unusable after the burning.

I think the Canadian viewpoint is based more on immediate surroundings and culture rather than legal identity. I guess the closest American analogy would be putting state identity over national identity. I'm a good example as I'll almost always call myself Texan before American, despite the fact Texas belongs to the United States.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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DeadPoolX wrote: despite the fact Texas belongs to the United States.
Well some nut jobs believe otherwise... :roll:
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Re: Break The Spine.

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I call myself Irish, even though i've never set foot in Ireland. Is that just a Northeast thing? Drives my really Irish sister-in-law crazy. :lol:
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Re: Break The Spine.

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DeadPoolX wrote:You'll find that most Canadians will claim it was between the US and Canada and that "Canadians burned down the White House." In fact, Canadian history seems to teach that point of view.

I'd never heard that until moving to Canada. I'd always heard it was a war between the US and Great Britain and that the "British burned down the White House." Truth be told, the White House wasn't entirely burned down; it was, however, severely damaged and unusable after the burning.

I think the Canadian viewpoint is based more on immediate surroundings and culture rather than legal identity. I guess the closest American analogy would be putting state identity over national identity. I'm a good example as I'll almost always call myself Texan before American, despite the fact Texas belongs to the United States.
Certainly the the British North Americans had the identity of being British subject at the time, much as Americans had before the Revolutionary War, however, of the British commanders in the War of 1812, only a couple were from what was to become Canada. Sir Gordon Drummond was the first Canadian-born officer to hold a command the military and the civil government of Canada. Lieutenant Colonel Charles de Salaberry was a French-Canadian. Others with Canadian ties were assigned to posts in British North America shortly before or during the war.

Perhaps the impression that the Canadians have that they burned Washington comes from the fact that Major General Robert Ross, an Anglo Irishman who was assigned command of all British troops off the east coast of the United States after serving under the Duke of Wellington during the Napoleonic Wars. He led the British forces in the burning of Washington and later, the Battle of Baltimore where he was killed. His body was pickled in a barrel of rum to preserve him when the ship carrying his body was diverted to New Orleans. His body was later shipped to Halifax for burial, which was his connection to Canada.

I'm sure that a number of British subjects living in British North America were conscripted into the army, some willingly, especially after the US invaded parts of Canada in reaction to the British inciting Indians into attacking Americans in the western lands ceded to the US after the Revolutionary War and in the land acquired from the Louisiana Purchase. Americans declared war in 1812 for this and several other reasons, including trade restrictions because of Britain's ongoing war with France and forced conscription of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy.

Oh, and the idea of holding a state identity before that of being an American was the usual view before the Civil War. After most saw themselves as Americans first. Your view does seem a lot more common in Texas than elsewhere.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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Oddly you even have that in countries like The Netherlands. People in Brabant, where I live, have a much stronger tie to their province than people in Noord-Holland (Amsterdam, Alkmaar) or Zuid-Holland (Rotterdam, The Hague, Leiden).

I'm wrapping up LED-light, and for that reason I'm browsing through Wuthering Heights, which is not exactly my kind of book. Opened up a copy at the shop at random: I read "‘Now, my bonny man, I’m going to Liverpool to-day, what shall I bring you?'"

Close the book and open it at random again. It says:
"Bonny bird; wheeling over our heads in the middle of the moor."

I'm baffled. Checked Gutenberg.org and discovered the word bonny is in it 14 times.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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Used by the Scots in olden times...

Definition of BONNY
chiefly British
: attractive, fair; also : fine, excellent
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Re: Break The Spine.

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The Scottish usage probably accounts for the name's origin. After all, many of our names come from ideas, concepts, professions, living areas and so on.

As for the whole "US vs Canada" thing, I think it still relates to geographical identity, rather than legal identity. It's absolutely true that Canada belonged to the UK until 1867 when it became its own country. But the people living there thought of themselves as Canadians, not British.

I think the reason Americans have difficulty understanding this (and until last week, when Maia and I had an in-depth discussion about it, I'd have included myself in that group) is because we were British one moment and then American the next as far as our nationally legal identity is concerned.

Canada never had that split. Sure, it's no longer a colony and is its own country, but it's still part of the Commonwealth. The UK has no say over anything that occurs in Canada, but it's still a connection nonetheless. So even if there were no Canadian troops during the War of 1812 (and there were), the fact the British fought is enough for Canadians to say "look what we did!" from a historical point of view.

In fact, just look at the word "state." Most countries use that to mean their entire nation. In the US, however, we use it as some countries use the word "province." Why? Because originally each state was its own country, more or less. Even if that was never official, it was how each state thought of itself.

So in a sense, the country's name (the United States of America) simply means "an allied collection of countries." In short, it's more similar to the European Union than any singular European country.

My point here is that people, in general, tend to identify with their surroundings on a more local level. For those living in Canada at the time of the War of 1812, they saw themselves as Canadians first and British subjects second (if the latter entered their minds at all).
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Rath Darkblade
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Re: Break The Spine.

Post by Rath Darkblade »

There is something there in what you say, DPX. Here in Australia, the situation is similar (albeit on a smaller scale): we too have states that, together, make up the country of Australia - but depending on where you are, you can be a Victorian, a New South Welshman, a Queenslander or whatever. (I'm at the southeastern state of Victoria). It also seems that there is a 'friendly' rivalry between the states and always has been.

Furthermore, when it comes to resources (e.g. water), most states decide to hog their own resources to themselves, and it's up to the national gov't to make them share. It sounds like it should be a chaotic situation, but it seems to work petty well on the whole.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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Illustrated Art History. Comprised of 16 volumes of about 200 pages each, decided to make my way through them and am halfway in the second volume, reading about Ancient Egypt.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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History of Architecture, by John Julius Norwich.
I intend to compete in a TV quiz about art. Unfortunately their definition of art is very wide-scaled and contains everything from a massive spectrum of architecture, sculpture, literature, classical and popular music, theatre, film, iconography, industrial design, art from any era from stone age to Claes Oldenburg, etc. And somehow I doubt every question will be about Frank Zappa.
You can play the quiz on their website too. It's definitely showed me my flaws. About the only genres I'm not worried about, are 20th century art music (I specialize in Anton Webern), films by Kubrick, impressionist art (thanks GK) and Russian 19th century literature (shocking how much I forgot from high school).

So I've become an art buff. If anyone is familiar with decent art sources, by all means hook me up.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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My favorite author, Anne McCaffrey, passed away a few weeks ago. I cried when I read this. :cry:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/24/arts/ ... at-85.html
I have approximately 60 of her books. Time to start re-reading them all.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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Wow. That's a too bad. Anne McCaffrey was one of those old school, well-respected sci-fi authors. I haven't read one of her books for years, but I remember reading the Crystal Singer trilogy a number of years ago and enjoying it. I also recall one of our teachers in school making a book of hers required reading. I thought that was pretty cool at the time.

I know that there are a couple authors work that I really, really love and I have no doubt I will feel the same way when they're gone.
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Re: Break The Spine.

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dotkel50 wrote:My favorite author, Anne McCaffrey, passed away a few weeks ago. I cried when I read this. :cry:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/24/arts/ ... at-85.html
I have approximately 60 of her books. Time to start re-reading them all.
Aye, did a little post about it when I first heard over on Neverending Nights. :(
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