Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

[MusicallyInspired]

I don't recall...is that the Q game? With the Borg? Or the board game with the VHS tape? I had the latter as a kid. Loads of fun.

[BBP]

Computer game I suppose, released by Virgin Interactive.

[MusicallyInspired]

This one?


I never had this as it was Macintosh only according to Wikipedia. But I watched the footage on YouTube. John deLancie obviously reprises his role and it was filmed on the actual sets with music by Dennis McCarthy and everything. It was also an audiobook, apparently.

[BBP]

Ah. Well they had it at the local second-hand shop but I left it there since I haven't played the X-Files game I bought last year yet.

[DeadPoolX]

Maia and I've been watching Star Trek Discovery more lately and after slogging through the first season, I'm happy to say the show really improves in the second season. With the introduction of new crew, Captain Pike, and even showing TOS uniforms, DIS is really starting to FEEL like Star Trek.

That said... the level of technology in DIS just bothers the hell out of me. It seems like they have replicators, holographic communication, LCD display screens (or whatever those ridiculous see-through screens are supposed to be), and even the ship's computer speaks to them.

Most of that stuff only came about in TNG (or at best, very late within the original crew ST films), and some things — like the screens or holographic communication — weren't even present in VOY, which was chronologically the furthest ahead ST show to date.

I realize showing everything exactly how it was in TOS would've looked odd to modern viewers, but they could've made the show's tech level somewhat resemble TOS. If they had, maybe DIS wouldn't feel so out of sync.

Also, the USS Discovery is insanely large. All figures I've seen online put a Crossfield-class starship at 750 meters long. In comparison, a Constitution-class starship (the original USS Enterprise) is only 295 meters long. To further put this into perspective, a Galaxy-class starship (USS Enterprise-D) is 642 meters long.

What's even weirder is that it was noted in the show that the USS Discovery's standard crew size is 136 people. Again, if you compare it to the crew sizes of the original USS Enterprise (205-430) or the USS Enterprise-D (1000-6000, with 15,000 being the maximum), you really have to wonder what's going on with that ship. Either there's very little living/work space or most of the ship is unmanned.

Maybe that's why most of the Discovery's size is due to its nacelles (each one is longer than an Intrepid-class starship, like USS Voyager), but even so... that's nuts! It's more on par with the ridiculous proportions shown in the Kelvin timeline (aka "JJ Abrams Reboot") than anything in the default timeline that all the shows and nearly all the movies exist in.

For size reference, I've included an image made by other Trek fans. For some reason or another the image's creators didn't include the USS Enterprise-E, but that might've been excluded because it only appeared in the movies.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, that's that alternate Star Trek license thing at work again I figure. (where the "Prime" timeline is not necessarily the old Trek "canon". And honestly, with the addition of a certain previously-unknown family member to a notable Star Trek family line, I don't consider any of this part of the old canon either)

Enterprise did a good job I think of blending proto-TOS level technology with futuristic 21st century technology as an in-between. It's too bad they didn't go more in that direction. I guess they figure everyone wants to see holograms in the future. I don't think that's necessary. Nor do I think it's as plausible as people seem to think it is. I don't know.

[DeadPoolX]

Maybe the people behind DIS feel that showing technology that represents "the future" based on ideas from over half a century ago (yeah, TOS first appeared in 1966, which was 53 years ago) would seem silly or backwards, but like you said, they could've blended it better.

It'd be neat if they ended DIS with something that set their technology back to TOS levels. Sure, it's a cop out of sorts, but at least it'd mesh with the normal timeline better if they did that.

Maia and I were talking about this, but from the first episode, DIS felt more like Mass Effect (or at least looked at ME for basic idea) than anything Star Trek. If you look at the aesthetic, the screens, the overall tech, the weapons, the combat suits, and so on, there seems to be a lot that resembles ME.

It's entirely possible I'm seeing connections where there are none, but given how the writers stole large sections from a not-yet-released indie game on Steam for DIS, I don't think it's entirely implausible to think they borrowed a few things from Mass Effect.

[notbobsmith]

I'm fine with changes to the look. Yes, the controls and displays look nothing like TOS-era. Yes, the "Starfleet" emblem should only be for the Enterprise. Yes the uniforms should be what we saw in "The Cage" (which they kind of address in Episode 1 of Season 2, but they still use the TOS-era uniforms and not "The Cage" turtlenecks). I can overlook all of these things. They can only do so much with small continuity issues without hamstringing the production. The holograms too. Someone probably thought it looked better and could be directed better than having someone talk to a TV. It's like the TOS versus movie/TNG Klingons. When I first watched Star Trek, it was TNG. I didn't start watching TOS until a little later and I was surprised by the look of the Klingons, but I was perfectly happy with the "pretend they always looked like this" approach (the DS9 thing was cute, the ENT explanation was unnecessary)and I can apply that here too . The bigger issue is with big changes in technology. The spore drive is something you have to explain why it doesn't exist anymore. Then again, they've been doing this for a long time. I remember in Season 2 of TBG Riker saying that time travel was "theoretical". When I finally watched TOS (I think I got caught up with TOS by TNG season 3) and then the movies, I learned that they were doing time travel quite a bit and fairly easily. Something they should have gotten very good at in the next hundred years.

Maia and I were talking about this, but from the first episode, DIS felt more like Mass Effect (or at least looked at ME for basic idea) than anything Star Trek. If you look at the aesthetic, the screens, the overall tech, the weapons, the combat suits, and so on, there seems to be a lot that resembles ME.

It's entirely possible I'm seeing connections where there are none, but given how the writers stole large sections from a not-yet-released indie game on Steam for DIS, I don't think it's entirely implausible to think they borrowed a few things from Mass Effect.

Some of the designs seem to be fairly common in Hollywood these days. The displays are similar to pretty much any Marvel movie. The earliest example of a transparent computer display like this that I can think of is Minority Report. We saw similar space and combat suits (the MACOs) as far back as ENT. Having phasers "pulse" rather than "beam" is also from the TNG era movies. Once someone sees a look that they like, it's inevitable that it will be copied. I remember when Avatar was accused of copying Halo's design aesthetic. But it was Halo that copied the design aesthetic of Aliens. Both of which were James Cameron films.

[notbobsmith]

Also, the USS Discovery is insanely large. All figures I've seen online put a Crossfield-class starship at 750 meters long. In comparison, a Constitution-class starship (the original USS Enterprise) is only 295 meters long. To further put this into perspective, a Galaxy-class starship (USS Enterprise-D) is 642 meters long.

What's even weirder is that it was noted in the show that the USS Discovery's standard crew size is 136 people. Again, if you compare it to the crew sizes of the original USS Enterprise (205-430) or the USS Enterprise-D (1000-6000, with 15,000 being the maximum), you really have to wonder what's going on with that ship. Either there's very little living/work space or most of the ship is unmanned.

Maybe that's why most of the Discovery's size is due to its nacelles (each one is longer than an Intrepid-class starship, like USS Voyager), but even so... that's nuts! It's more on par with the ridiculous proportions shown in the Kelvin timeline (aka "JJ Abrams Reboot") than anything in the default timeline that all the shows and nearly all the movies exist in.

For size reference, I've included an image made by other Trek fans. For some reason or another the image's creators didn't include the USS Enterprise-E, but that might've been excluded because it only appeared in the movies.

I wonder where the numbers for the sizes come from. Discovery looks similar in size to the Enterprise in the final Season 1 episode, though the perspective makes it hard to judge. It certainly doesn't look like it dwarfs the Enterprise. Which makes sense since the Enterprise and other Constitution-class ships are supposed to be the top-of-the-line ships of the era. Everything else should be less impressive.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes, the "Starfleet" emblem should only be for the Enterprise.

I've not heard this before. You mean the arrowhead? That's definitely Starfleet's emblem and has always been.

[DeadPoolX]

Yes, the "Starfleet" emblem should only be for the Enterprise.

I've not heard this before. You mean the arrowhead? That's definitely Starfleet's emblem and has always been.

Not in TOS. Back then every ship had its own emblem. The Enterprise's emblem is what we today consider Starfleet's emblem.

There's been a lot of fan speculation over the years as to WHY Starfleet ended up adopting Enterprise's emblem as Starfleet's insignia, but as far as I know, there's never been any official in-universe reason.

Here's a couple of photos of Captain Tracey from "The Omega Glory" and Commodore Decker from "The Doomsday Machine". Notice that both of their emblems are a LOT different.

[MusicallyInspired]

Wow I never noticed that before. I guess that change was made in The Motion Picture, eh?

[notbobsmith]

Wow I never noticed that before. I guess that change was made in The Motion Picture, eh?

That's what I've always assumed. I think I read in a Star Trek Technical Manual or something that they adopted the Enterprise insignia because it was the most illustrious ship in the fleet, but like DPX said, nothing official. But I only just now did a little digging and found this. It seems the "each ship has its own insignia" thing may have been unintentional:

http://www.startrek.com/article/starfle ... -explained

The article was published just a few months ago.

Seems odd that the costume designer would take it upon himself to create new insignia without being told otherwise and no one stopped him earlier.

It is worth noting that the producers of Enterprise thought the same thing: each ship had its own insignia. In the Season 4 two-part episode "In a Mirror, Darkly" where the Defiant from "The Tholian Web" ends up in the past in the Mirror Universe (Season 4 was awesome ). The crew of the Defiant is already dead and face-down, so we don't actually see the insignia in "The Tholian Web". So, for the purposes of this episode, the producers of Enterprise created a new one. A nice bit of attention to detail, I thought.

[Collector]

DPX is absolutely right about the TOS era insignias. In that episode the "dark" Enterprise crew put on the TOS era uniforms they find onboard, so you do get to see it.

[Collector]