We All Love Sierra Games, Right? Well, what did you Hate?

[Tawmis]

It's totally cheating!

So what was it about QFG, LSL or Iceman you didn't care for? Was there any elements? Not into RPGs in general, so didn't like QFG? Don't care for adult humor, so didn't like LSL? Couldn't figure out the sub sequence so disliked Iceman?

That pretty much nails it.

Gee, I feel like I know you so well!

The parser. I hated the parser.

WHAT? You hated the typing parser?

[DeadPoolX]

Some of them I didn't particularly care for, like Conquests of the Longbow, but I didn't hate it.

Interesting. What is it that you didn't like about CoL? Was it the interface? Story

Well, I've never been particularly interested in the Robin Hood legend (as opposed to Arthurian legends, which is why I greatly enjoyed Conquests of Camelot) so that certainly didn't help.

I guess the game felt too random and lacking direction. While I like the ability to choose my own path, the way CotL did it just seemed haphazard almost.

I guess can't really explain it in any meaningful manner.

I've played plenty of games where there player has far more input into the story than CotL and yet had no problem with them. For some reason that game simply didn't "click" with me.

Of course, maybe my age had something to do with it. I was 11 when the game came out, so perhaps I wasn't mature enough to really appreciate the game. I haven't played it since, so maybe my opinion would be different now.

[gumby]

The parser. I hated the parser.

WHAT? You hated the typing parser?

Ahem. Yes, the parser. I should have clarified - I love parsers, I just found that some of the games could have done with some more robust parser programming (especially the early games).

I had been playing text adventures for years. Started playing some Sierra games & found that the parser fell short of my expectations. I feel that it was neglected, like the graphics got development priority. It seems that before the it could evolve sufficiently it got pre-empted by the point-and-click interface.

[dotkel50]

Well, as I mentioned in my first post, he was 1/2 of the inspiration of this thread! With everyone here - would you ever go back to it?

I may go back to it now that Collector posted that cheat code.

[Collector]

I took it that Gumby meant the Sierra parser as opposed to the Infocom parser, which at the time Sierra was envious of its robustness and versatility.

[Collector]

Well, as I mentioned in my first post, he was 1/2 of the inspiration of this thread! With everyone here - would you ever go back to it?

I may go back to it now that Collector posted that cheat code.

I can't say how completable the game would be by offing him. I expect the game would lockup crash or some necessary event would not be triggered. Now if the cheat could bring him back to life or could stop the timer until you were ready for him...

[MusicallyInspired]

It's interesting. The parser is usually a source of incredible love or incredible hatred, and the reaction is vice versa to P&C for each party. Myself, I've liked them both and never truly favoured one over the other. The parser can be difficult to figure out what it wants you to type sometimes, but you can also blame P&C for being simply too easy sometimes.

[Collector]

I understand and appreciate the appeal that many have for the parser. My only problem with it is when you have continually play 20 questions to find just the right word, even when you already know what you need to do. This is usually just because the vocabulary is not inclusive enough. Additionally, SCI's parser pausing the game as you type is a big improvement over that of AGI.

[MusicallyInspired]

It probably comes from the games not having the opportunity to be properly beta tested the way games today are. If parser games were still released today you can guarantee that they wouldn't release it without getting as much feedback as possible from testers on what would be acceptable parser input.

Actually, it'd be kind of neat to create a kind of fanmade patch for AGI games to ammend to all the parser inputs that people complained about over the years. It's certainly possible with AGI Studio/WinAGI.

[Rath Darkblade]

I didn't like Cedric the Owl. But I don't think many people did, so I'm not particularly unusual there!

I didn't particularly care for LSL5's story... LSL1 was fairly simplistic (though fun), LSL2 and 3 built on the theme (particularly 3), and LSL6 and 7 were a return to the simplicity of LSL1. LSL5 felt like an aberration - the whole "corrupt Corporation + Bond parody" thing just didn't click for me. I guess it's because the whole LSL enterprise is meant to be silly and never take itself too seriously, and Patti's part in LSL5 felt too serious. At least IMHO.

Funnily enough, even though some people here disliked QfG's bugs, I can say with absolute confidence that they never bothered me. Sure, I played QfG at a time that 486s and Pentium 2s were de rigeur, so I never got bugs there. Still, I know what people are taking about - that damned error 52 in the swamps during QfG4, particularly. As for QfG's bugginess:

Hated QFG's general bugginess. Would probably be my favorite Sierra series (barring GK) but almost every installment had some nasty bugs and this is the toughest series by far to play all the way through successfully.

I remember the bugs in QFGIV... I don't remember much in terms of bugs for the others!

These bugs would only show up under fast computers (Pentium 4s and above):

- QfG1 VGA could freeze at the character selection screen (though QfG1 EGA was fine).
- QfG3 was fairly buggy - it could CTD during the race against Yesufu. Also, why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? Why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? Why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? Why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? ad nauseum.
- QfG4's most annoying bug was in the swamps (error 52), but could also happen when you slide down the path at the start.
- QfG5 could have very annoying bugs right towards the end, after Minos jumps off the balcony. You get the Dragon rising video, and then the game CTDs.
- Can't remember any bugs in QfG2!

Anyway...............

Timer puzzles are what REALLY irritated me in Sierra games. The mummies in GK1 have been mentioned, but for me, the most irritating one happened very late in LSL3, when Patti has to take a ride on a log down the river. I hated the fact that even with fairly slow computers, you only had a second or so to react before Patti smashed into a rock or something. It's an adventure game, dammit, so why am I suddenly playing a dodge 'em?

[Collector]

Most of the bugs in QfG4 were in the floppy version. There were a couple of timer bugs in the CD version, especially the error 52, but the majority of the bugs were fixed by the time the CD version was released.

[Tawmis]

It's interesting. The parser is usually a source of incredible love or incredible hatred, and the reaction is vice versa to P&C for each party. Myself, I've liked them both and never truly favoured one over the other. The parser can be difficult to figure out what it wants you to type sometimes, but you can also blame P&C for being simply too easy sometimes.

I loved the parser. Was it 100% easy? No, not all the time. But once you got the hang of Sierra games, and realized how "sentences" worked - the parser was, over all easy. (Except for the one scenario in LSL2 in the airplane...) When I played KQ5, which I believe was the first Point & Click Sierra game I had played; I actually wrote them a very strongly worded letter about it. I strongly disliked it. (I still do, in Sierra games, to this day). The typing parser is the main reason I believe I type as fast as I do. And the point and click, you didn't need to look on the screen for anything; you just could click where ever until something happened. To me, it took the "thinking" out of Sierra games.

For example in SQ3... right in the beginning, where the wires are dangling... One could have randomly clicked all over the screen and got points for clicking on it, rather than taking the time to notice it, and look at it, and get the wires, all by typing.

I dunno, perhaps that's why I still enjoy replaying the text parser Sierra games, over the clicky. Because I remember feeling more challenged. And thus, got more enjoyment out of it.

I understand and appreciate the appeal that many have for the parser. My only problem with it is when you have continually play 20 questions to find just the right word, even when you already know what you need to do. This is usually just because the vocabulary is not inclusive enough. Additionally, SCI's parser pausing the game as you type is a big improvement over that of AGI.

I will agree, this was a huge improvement (most notably in SQ3) on the conveyer belt in the beginning!

It probably comes from the games not having the opportunity to be properly beta tested the way games today are. If parser games were still released today you can guarantee that they wouldn't release it without getting as much feedback as possible from testers on what would be acceptable parser input.

Actually, it'd be kind of neat to create a kind of fanmade patch for AGI games to ammend to all the parser inputs that people complained about over the years. It's certainly possible with AGI Studio/WinAGI.

Well not only beta testing, but these days games can be patched over the internet, by coding within the program. Like I can launch Left 4 Dead 2, or even something like GoldWave and it will hit the internet in the background and say, "Hey, there's an update for this..." Which fixes or improves the game.

None of the games back then were capable of that; and for the most part, most of the world did not have a constant internet connection. If they were lucky, they had a 56K, or 28.8 (or 14.4) baud modem... the unlucky ones were still on 2400 Baud! Or didn't even have - or know! - what the internet was!

I didn't like Cedric the Owl. But I don't think many people did, so I'm not particularly unusual there!

Irony being, I believe you're the first to mention it...

- QfG1 VGA could freeze at the character selection screen (though QfG1 EGA was fine).

I don't remember that ever happening to me...!

- QfG3 was fairly buggy - it could CTD during the race against Yesufu. Also, why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? Why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? Why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? Why did you come here, friend of Rakeesh? ad nauseum.

I don't think I ever experienced that one either.

- QfG4's most annoying bug was in the swamps (error 52), but could also happen when you slide down the path at the start.

I remember this as painfully as the stick in the mud in the KQ game.

Timer puzzles are what REALLY irritated me in Sierra games. The mummies in GK1 have been mentioned, but for me, the most irritating one happened very late in LSL3, when Patti has to take a ride on a log down the river. I hated the fact that even with fairly slow computers, you only had a second or so to react before Patti smashed into a rock or something. It's an adventure game, dammit, so why am I suddenly playing a dodge 'em?

There was a dodge'em in SQ also... Was it SQ2? SQ1? One of those had it... I don't think it was SQ3.

Where you're going across the desert...

[MusicallyInspired]

Only one desert in the Space Quest series. Well, there's Klorox II in SQ5 but it's not really a desert....really....it's rocky, whereas Kerona is sandy.

[BBP]

Odd that everybody prefers LSL2 and 3... I feel like such a freak... Probably since I've played 1, 5, 6 and 7 as a kid/teenager and you're trying to get that same feel back. I don't care very much about a story if the game is good (unless it's about houses raping women or something). And LSL3 had little game: because of the manual driven puzzles I could literally not do anything without walkthrough even though I tried. It was no game. Well, besides the log ride, but the problems with that have already been described here (Al could've made that so much better by letting the game start again automatically in the same position if you accidentally fall off: all that F5 and F7 all the time was too annoying). In LSL2 about the only puzzle was "get to that section in time and bring all the stuff you need", and that was repeated five times. LSLs 1, 6 and 7 I keep going back to with a smile. I still play Liar's Dice a lot and beat Dewmi without saving or cheating.

Of course, when it comes to truly hate: Willy Beamish. And I got tired of the Freddy flatulence way before the whoopie cushion (while I didn't understand a word the narrator was saying). And the Bogeyman in KQ7: not just because he always gives me such a fright, but because it's such a long wait until your protagonist is finally away from the scene: usually he can't be avoided because Valanice is trying to keep her dress clean. And the Shivers guillotine and hanging.

[gumby]

I took it that Gumby meant the Sierra parser as opposed to the Infocom parser, which at the time Sierra was envious of its robustness and versatility.

Correct. The early AGI games especially were lacking. With Infocom games I was used to 4+ word inputs, and suddenly most of the inputs needed to be 2 word (at least that's the way I remember it - I could be wrong). I felt the same way playing the original text game 'Adventure' - horrible parser.

It probably comes from the games not having the opportunity to be properly beta tested the way games today are. If parser games were still released today you can guarantee that they wouldn't release it without getting as much feedback as possible from testers on what would be acceptable parser input.

Actually, it'd be kind of neat to create a kind of fanmade patch for AGI games to ammend to all the parser inputs that people complained about over the years. It's certainly possible with AGI Studio/WinAGI.

I absolutely love that idea.

I also should also say that just because I hated the parser playing the games, it doesn't stop me from tinkering with it today.