TV Series

[Tawmis]

WandaVision is exceptionally bizarre and I love it. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Phew. I didn't hate it. But neither did I like it. It's too... slow?

I'm really enjoying it. I don't know. It takes me back to those old shows like Lost in Space, Gilligan's Island, Andy Griffith Show, Abbott and Costello Show. Charming silly old TV shows (at least the first two episodes). Totally out of left field and things keep changing but there's hints at something sinister going on and I can't wait to find out what it is. But in the meantime, I'm really entertained by the content so it doesn't feel slow to me.

Oh, I get the openings (especially liked the Bewitched reference/opening cartoon). But that's just it... it feels like it doesn't know what it wants. And to me - I believe 100% they're basing this VERY loosely off an existing comic book story (I won't spoil what I am 99% sure what they're doing) - and that's the "Sinister" aspect behind it - but it feels like it's trying to do those old type shows; but then it's also adding this Sinister element beneath it - that, to me - doesn't fit. One is upbeat, cheery, silly, funny; the other is almost like something from LOST. They directly clash. Because they don't really do a lot of the "suspense/sinister" until they very end. Like the last 10 seconds. (They provide other hints - like "What is the heart on the calendar mean?") - but I think if they really want it to work for what I'd like to see is more 50/50 of the old time and the suspense.

[DeadPoolX]

WandaVision is exceptionally bizarre and I love it. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Phew. I didn't hate it. But neither did I like it. It's too... slow?

I'm really enjoying it. I don't know. It takes me back to those old shows like Lost in Space, Gilligan's Island, Andy Griffith Show, Abbott and Costello Show. Charming silly old TV shows (at least the first two episodes). Totally out of left field and things keep changing but there's hints at something sinister going on and I can't wait to find out what it is. But in the meantime, I'm really entertained by the content so it doesn't feel slow to me.

Oh, I get the openings (especially liked the Bewitched reference/opening cartoon). But that's just it... it feels like it doesn't know what it wants. And to me - I believe 100% they're basing this VERY loosely off an existing comic book story (I won't spoil what I am 99% sure what they're doing) - and that's the "Sinister" aspect behind it - but it feels like it's trying to do those old type shows; but then it's also adding this Sinister element beneath it - that, to me - doesn't fit. One is upbeat, cheery, silly, funny; the other is almost like something from LOST. They directly clash. Because they don't really do a lot of the "suspense/sinister" until they very end. Like the last 10 seconds. (They provide other hints - like "What is the heart on the calendar mean?") - but I think if they really want it to work for what I'd like to see is more 50/50 of the old time and the suspense.

I don't have Disney+ so I haven't seen WandaVision, but in reference to "it feels like it doesn't know what it wants," well... this is that show's first season. In practically every show I've ever seen, first seasons go through an awkward stage. I don't know what it is, but usually first seasons have relatively weak storylines and characterization that feels off or poor.

Admittedly, that's been less of an issue with higher quality TV shows and not being able to afford to waste a single season. By that I mean seasons are really short now, usually ranging anywhere from eight to ten episodes. Sometimes you might actually see a season that has 12 or 13 episodes, but it's pretty rare.

In the past, you'd see seasons that could range between 24 to 30 episodes (depends on the decade) for both hour-long dramas and half-hour sitcoms. That said, the overall quality of MOST network shows was far lower than a lot of the stuff we see today, the actual length of shows were less than advertised (due to commercials) and more episodes usually meant the writers wasted time with non-story-related one-shots and had characters doing stuff that felt designed to burn up running time. Also, censorship was a big issue, and is still stricter on network television today (at least in the US) than it is on premium channels or streaming-specific content.

[Tawmis]

I don't have Disney+ so I haven't seen WandaVision, but in reference to "it feels like it doesn't know what it wants," well... this is that show's first season. In practically every show I've ever seen, first seasons go through an awkward stage. I don't know what it is, but usually first seasons have relatively weak storylines and characterization that feels off or poor.

Now normally I would absolutely agree with you. If this was a show with "new" characters that need the viewers to attach to. However, Vision and Scarlet Witch have been in several widely popular movies.
That said, neither Vision or Scarlet Witch act anything like they did in the movies; because, they do indeed act like the silly "I love Lucy" and "Bewitched" type of B&W humor; so the character dialogue is (intentionally) silly.
They're definitely building up to something; both episodes have had clues about "something" coming.
But the execution doesn't feel right to me. And, my wife felt the same - so it's not just the comic geek in me, saying "This is stupid."
But plenty of people enjoy it; and I've seen plenty who dislike it; and plenty like myself who are very much on the fence.
Because Marvel/Disney has not let me down (other than Iron Man 3 - that movie doesn't exist in my head). So I don't doubt that this is going to be good... eventually.
But, that said - I do believe this show is just ONE season long. I am not 100% sure - but I believe (if I am guessing correctly as to what's happening) - this is going to lead into the next phase of the Marvel Universe.

[notbobsmith]

I haven't seen WandaVision so I can't comment on it specifically, but one thing that "bothers" me about TV series these days is the strong dependence on the season-long story arc. Discovery and Picard are much the same: it's almost impossible to evaluate until the season reaches its conclusion. Then you know if what was leading up to it was worth it or not. I miss the days of TNG: some episodes were good, some were great, others were turkeys with the occasional "meh". On balance it was a good show. As for WandaVision, who knows? Maybe at the end of the season you'll say "That was brilliant" or people who like the show now will say "Seriously?".

[Rath Darkblade]

It's gotten so bad that both the makers of Lysol and Clorox had to put warning labels on their products, urging people not to drink them.

Rath, there are warnings on curling irons that state: "for external use only." Think about that for a moment.

Yeah, I've seen some of those warnings. This article from Forbes, 10 years ago, gave 20 of the dumbest.

I suppose that's fair enough. No company wants to be sued, especially over really stoopid things. And yet, I'd have hoped that most of us would know enough not to drink bleach.

But if, just for the sake of argument, someone does drink bleach and his family sues Clorox ... (pardon me while I ) ... why doesn't the judge just throw the case out?

I'd love to see that. "The judgement of this court is that Clorox has no case to answer. Your son's earned his Darwin Award through his complete stupidity, and looking at you, I can see where he got it from. Get out and never disgrace my court again with your inane ramblings. As for your lawyer -- sir, you should know better, and if I ever see you again, I'll have you disbarred. NEXT!"

(Maybe not in those words, but ...)

[goatmeal]

One of our business teachers in high school would explain why (at the time) push lawn mowers in the United States had a warning label not to use them to trim the hedges...

...because some idiot used it to trim his hedges, severely hurt himself, then sued and won because there was "no label" explicitly warning against using it as such.

========================================

• Goatmeal: "If you try to make something idiot-proof, they'll just build a better idiot."

and

• Goatmeal: "Never underestimate that most people think nothing will cure their ills quicker than a dose of free money."

[Rath Darkblade]

George Carlin: "'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

[goatmeal]

George Carlin: "'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

That's one of my favorites from him!

[Rath Darkblade]

He's one of my favourites, period. Plus (from the 80s and 90s) Bill Hicks -- although I don't like all his stuff. Plus Lennny Bruce, Victor Borge ...

[Tawmis]

Wife and I got through watching all 15 seasons (plus the two episode "finale" they called CSI: Immortality), finally.

We're now going through the show SEAL TEAM (which I loved, but had stopped doing cable - but now are able to stream it). So we back tracked to Season 2 (which we'd watched, but it'd been over a year - so it was a nice refresher spot to start from) - and we're now on Season 3.

[DeadPoolX]

I saw this and thought it was an appropriate image to include in this thread.

[Rath Darkblade]

i agree. the above graphic is (on the whole) true. "Blackadder", "Fawlty Towers", "Yes Minister" et al. didn't run that long. ("Blackadder" had 4 seasons; "Yes Minister", 3; "Fawlty Towers", only 2). And all three are widely considered to be flawless classics, with nary a crack anywhere.

On the other hand, something like "Are You Being Served?" ran for 10 seasons ... and I agree, after season 6 or 7, things started getting rather stale. Still funny, but not as much as before.

Does the above graphic refer only to American shows? If so, please disregard everything I've said.

[BBP]

It's Cracked so it's pretty tongue in cheek but I find that of all the shows I like the only ones that truly follows this line are Simpsons and, to some degree, House. The rest either quit while they were ahead or were fantastic from the get-go.

TVTropes calls the phenomenons illustrated "Early Installment Weirdness" and "Seasonal Rot". In the seasonal rot in the shows I like (House, Are You Being Served, QI, Jonathan Creek, Great British Bake-Off) a lot of it is caused by departing cast members.

[DeadPoolX]

I find that a lot of it has to do with character degradation. What seems to happen is there will be a serious character, who's talented, powerful, etc. (it depends on the nature of the show) and then this character becomes popular and more comedic. After a while, this character was once looked at seriously is now comic relief.

I think this tends to happen a lot more in supernatural-oriented shows, such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Supernatural, Grimm, and so on.

[Rath Darkblade]

Possibly. But it happened in The Simpsons too: Homer Simpson, for instance, started out in Season 1 as a mature dad with good intentions, if a little dumb. For instance:

1. He loves his family and would do much to protect them.
2. To save Bart's life, he jumps the Springfield Gorge himself (accidentally).
3. When the Simpsons are lost in the forest (without their RV), he goes looking for food.
4. When the Simpsons kids behave badly at Burns's picnic, he takes them to see a psychiatrist.
5. When Homer is fired from the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant, he takes up public safety as a cause to crusade for.
6. But when the Simpsons kids get a babysitter who's really a house-breaker ("The Babysitter Bandit"), they capture and tie her up ... only for Homer to free her, a second before the police and the news turn up to expose what a boob he is.

Compare that Homer to Homer Simpson now: irresponsible trouble-maker and utterly incompetent at his job. (True, he was never great at it, but at the start, he had more common sense - e.g. he wouldn't embarrass his boss or plot against him). His only redeeming feature is that he loves his family and would do anything for them, even if that "anything" is stupid to the point of risking his life (or even dying).

As you say, DPX: Homer started out as a serious character with good potential. Now, he's comic relief.