HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

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Jules
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HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Jules »

Since my eight year old desktop is showing signs of going on the fritz, I'm eyeballing this little laptop. What do you think? Isn't it cute? :D

"Featuring Windows 7, Beats Audio, and even a web cam that turns the screen into a digital compact mirror, its slim, sleek profile is utterly portable allowing you to work, play and connect all while you're on the go. Includes a one-year limited warranty and one year of free HP tech support."
  • Intel Atom N450 processor
    Windows 7 Premium
    0.9" thick
    2.69 lbs
    10.1" HD display
    2GB memory
    250GB hard drive
    93% full-size keyboard
    Up to 5.5 hours of battery life
$598.00
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by DeadPoolX »

Jules wrote:"Includes a one-year limited warranty and one year of free HP tech support."
Get a two year on-site warranty. You'll need it if something goes wrong since laptops can be difficult to fix, unless it's easy like a hard drive or RAM.
Jules wrote:
  • Intel Atom N450 processor
    Windows 7 Premium
    0.9" thick
    2.69 lbs
    10.1" HD display
    2GB memory
    250GB hard drive
    93% full-size keyboard
    Up to 5.5 hours of battery life
$598.00
Intel's "Atom" line of processors are low performance at best. They're a lot cheaper and use less power than other MUCH better processors (like an i3, i5 or i7). Furthermore, it seems the N450 isn't a dual core or quad core. From what I've read, it uses hyper-threading, which is an old technology. To put that into perspective, I got my desktop in 2006 and it uses HT.

Windows 7 Home Premium is better than the "vanilla" Home version, but I prefer the Professional version. You may not need the additions available in the Professional edition, however.

Are you sure you want a laptop monitor that small? It sounds like you're replacing your desktop and if that's true, you'll end up looking at that tiny screen a lot. My laptop has a 15" widescreen screen and that's not big enough for me sometimes. The main difference, however, is my laptop is for work-related purposes and isn't replacing my desktop.

2GB memory is barely enough nowadays. Windows 7 wants more to run optimally. You can always add this in later, though.

250GB hard drive is fine if you don't install a lot of software. You can always upgrade later.

A smaller keyboard (and smaller monitor) will reduce the weight and size, but also make the laptop more difficult to use. I know I have trouble with my laptop keyboard and it's certainly not a small one, either.

Finally, that battery life is dismal. I say that because manufacturers rate laptop battery life based on leaving the computer alone, with virtually all services stopped (including internet connectivity) and running a screen saver or in sleep mode. So if HP says that battery will last for 5.5 hours, assume it'll be a LOT less. Using my laptop as an example, Dell says I've got a "9 hour battery." Even with the "power saver mode" and all the bells and whistles turned off, my laptop will last 4.5 to 5 hours at most (which is considered excellent for a laptop).

Look carefully at what HP says about the video and audio card. Does this laptop use on-board video and/or audio? If so, you may want to think about how that might affect you.

I wouldn't replace my desktop with a laptop. Unless you absolutely demand portability, I'd stay with a desktop. Even if you want to drag your laptop all over the place, I'd recommend getting a slightly larger model. Your eyes may thank you later. ;)
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Maiandra »

That does look pretty cool, Jules. I like the designs you can get on notebooks these days.

I would only go for it for light personal use, like email, internet, and casual gaming. Like DPX, I wouldn't want to replace my desktop with that or have to use it for an extended period of time (more than a couple hours). However, it all depends on what you're going to do with it.

I will say that the portability is great, if you don't mind the smaller monitor. It's so light!

You may want to consider what you'll be using it for in the long-run and if the specs will see you through a few years of use. I had a laptop a number of years ago for school that I ended up using for a few years at least. By the end of its life, I was really wishing that I'd picked some of the better options originally.
...a web cam that turns the screen into a digital compact mirror...
:roll: If I wanted a compact mirror, I'd buy a compact. I can't believe they use that as a marketing feature. That's kind of silly.
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by BBP »

It is. My screen works as a mirror anyway.

Isn't there any way you can create your own design on your laptop? I mean, can't you just put paint on them?
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Jules »

The main reason why I'm looking at this one is because it's small and lightweight. I've received notification that I passed the first stage of acceptance into grad school. YAY! And this looks like it would be convenient enough for simple use. I'm pretty sure I'll be fully accepted and if I do, I'd like to treat myself to this laptop.

The battery life does not sound great but does any really have a great life? I could always plug it in somewhere, I suppose.

What's all this dual quad core hyper threading? Does it run faster depending on which you have?

What additions does the Professional version have over Premium?

As for the small monitor, I really don't mind because my desktop monitor is only 13". It does get a little aggravating when using Photoshop because we're spoiled at work with two monitors, but since I'm done with design I won't need the extra space.

I don't plan on putting a lot of software on it which works out because most of the space hogging software are my Adobe products, 3dsMax and other design software. Since I'm done with that, they'll stay on my desktop.

As for the video and audio card, I don't think I'd need anything fancy. As long as I can hear music and watch an occasional youtube video, I'm fine. :P
maia wrote:If I wanted a compact mirror, I'd buy a compact. I can't believe they use that as a marketing feature. That's kind of silly.
:lol: Well, I suppose since their target market is females. I use my little compact mirror in my purse if I want to dig out that sprig of broccoli stuck in between my teeth. :P Maybe I can use it to spy on people sitting behind me. :P

But yes, it's for causal use for school, nothing too great. My desktop still works but it's extremely slow and this laptop looks like it would be convenient for the purposes I intend to use it for.

LOL. I could paint it, BBP, but the paint probably would not adhere to the surface and would probably chip like nail polish. Besides, the butterfly design is kinda cute, even though I would prefer a photo of Milo on the front. ^_^

Thanks for your two cents, everyone. :)
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by DeadPoolX »

Jules wrote:The main reason why I'm looking at this one is because it's small and lightweight. I've received notification that I passed the first stage of acceptance into grad school. YAY! And this looks like it would be convenient enough for simple use. I'm pretty sure I'll be fully accepted and if I do, I'd like to treat myself to this laptop.
Congrats. :)
Jules wrote:The battery life does not sound great but does any really have a great life? I could always plug it in somewhere, I suppose.
Some laptops last longer than others. A lot of it comes down to whatever settings you choose and which programs you run. As I said before, the battery life companies advertise is a fraction of what you'll really get, so you'll want to buy the best battery possible.

My laptop battery will last around five hours and Dell calls it a "nine hour battery." It would last nine hours if I turned everything off and had it sit there like a lump. Obviously, I'm not going to do that and neither is anyone else.

If you want your laptop to last longer, you'll have to give up some visual effects. Much of Windows 7's effects are neat, but totally unnecessary and simply eat up power. That only holds if you're using the battery, however. If you plug the laptop in, you can turn on whatever you want.

Regardless of what type of battery you get, you'll want to setup different power options for battery use and plugged-in modes. Windows 7 has some settings already built in (i.e. Power Saver, Balanced and High Performance) and some companies have their own. Dell, for instance, put a "Dell" setting on there, whatever that means. I just edited it to make the best use of power and function when running off the battery and when plugged in.

Oh and you don't want to rely on plugging your laptop in. Sometimes it's hard to find a place. Even when you can, electrical sockets can be hard to get to (like in a classroom, where electrical sockets are usually on the walls, so if you sit anywhere near the middle, you can't get to one) and you'll have to compete with other people to use them.

Besides, the entire point of a laptop -- especially one as small and light as you're buying -- is to remain portable. ;)
Jules wrote:What's all this dual quad core hyper threading? Does it run faster depending on which you have?
The idea behind all three of those is that a single-core processor can only do so much at one time.

Back in the mid-2000s, Intel developed something called Hyper-Threading. The basic idea was to emulate the abilities of a dual-core machine on one single-core CPU. It works to some degree, but it's not as good as having a real dual-core (or better yet, a quad-core).

Dual-core processors split the workload up among two cores. Quad-core processors go one step further and split the workload up among four cores.

Why is that important? Because the number of tasks modern PCs are expected to run at one time can bog down a single-core machine. Most productivity programs, including an increasing number of games, take advantage and benefit from multiple cores.

However, that doesn't mean single-core CPUs are useless. I've got a single-core (with hyper-threading) and even though lots of software (particularly games) like to say a dual-core is necessary, I haven't found that to be the case. I've run games as recent as Dragon Age (2009) and Mass Effect 2 (2010), both of which played extremely well.

Something that throws a lot of people off is the CPU clock speed. This used to be simple since a higher clock speed always meant a faster machine. It's not that easy now. You have to take into account the multitasking nature of dual-core and quad-core processors. This means if a dual-core or quad-core's CPU clock appears slower than a single-core's clock, that doesn't mean the single-core is better.

I'm simplifying all of this a great deal, but I doubt you really want to read pages upon pages of information. If you want more detail, I'd suggest doing some in-depth Google searching. If nothing else, Wikipedia might be a decent place to start.
Jules wrote:What additions does the Professional version have over Premium?
Not a whole lot if you don't need extra features that allow greater control over the OS. To put it simply, there's less of a difference between the Home and Professional versions of Windows 7 than there was in Windows XP.
Jules wrote:As for the small monitor, I really don't mind because my desktop monitor is only 13". It does get a little aggravating when using Photoshop because we're spoiled at work with two monitors, but since I'm done with design I won't need the extra space.
Holy crap. That means my laptop's 15" screen is larger than your desktop's monitor! :shock:

I don't know how much work you'll be doing on your laptop (or what kind and for how long), but I'd strongly recommend a larger screen. Your eyes won't get nearly as tired that way.
Jules wrote:But yes, it's for causal use for school, nothing too great. My desktop still works but it's extremely slow and this laptop looks like it would be convenient for the purposes I intend to use it for.
It would definitely be light and portable and if that's what you want, it'll probably work well for you.

One last thought: just because that laptop is good now doesn't mean it'll be good later. In other words, don't skimp too much just because you believe "that's all I need right now." You can get away with that on desktops (to some degree) since they're easy to upgrade, but laptops are far less flexible.

Spend a little extra money to get a better processor at least. While installing a new processor in a desktop is a huge pain in the ass, it's virtually impossible to do with a laptop.
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Collector »

The idea of the Atom processor is for the Netbooks. If you want to do more than what you can with a Netbook, get at least a Core2. The Atom is a low power CPU, both in terms of horse power and power usage. Netbooks are tiny with no optical drive, but can be found for as little as $300 or even less.

Hyperthreading is near useless and can cause compatibility problems with some programs. Multiple cores can help somewhat with multitasking, but whether or not it will benefit an individual program depends. A single core can execute only a single processing thread at one time. A second core can execute another thread at the same time. Professional workstations and servers have utilized dual CPU (or more) for years to do this before multicore CPUs became available. But unless a program is written to be multithreaded, essentially only one core will be used.

Few consumer level applications are multithreaded. Almost no games are. Some professional programs are, especially graphics programs. Programs that use more than two tend to be enterprise level programs, like those for a server or distributed computing. Even if you have few programs that are multithreaded, multicores can give you a smother experience. The GUI get CPU cycles even when the main task has one of the cores pegged. Anyone remember using an old parallel scanner and having the system lockup, even the mouse, until the scan was complete? This did not happen with dual CPU machines. Additional cores will use more power, but modern cores are so much more efficient than the older CPUs, especially the P4s.

Differences between Win7 Home Premium and Pro are not great, but there are a few that may be important. Some tools are missing that many will not miss, but I believe the Group Policy Editor is missing. The Group Policy Editor makes changing the behavior of some Windows feature very easy, such as globally turning AutoRun off or the annoying file open security warning popup every time you try to run a program. The main reason that you may want to get Pro is for XP Mode, especially if you have 64-bit Windows. It can solve compatibility problems if you have any older programs that won't run on Win7. It has allowed me to use my old scanner that had no drivers for Win7-64. Very handy for programs that will run on Win7-64, but because of a 16-bit installer, will not install.
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by AndreaDraco »

Congratulations Jules!

I'm so happy that you were accepted!
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

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Almost every game I see now wants a dual-core processor -- some games go so far as to warn that without a dual-core, you can't play the game. Most of these games probably don't NEED one, but like you said, it'll make the experience much smoother. Given how demanding modern games can be, it doesn't surprise me that a dual-core processor would provide some benefit.

Oh and I've found hyper-threading to be beneficial, but I got my machine in 2006. If I were purchasing a new computer, I'd never go with it now. :)
Last edited by DeadPoolX on Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Maiandra »

Congratulations on completing the first stage of acceptance to grad school! That's great! :D
Jules wrote:
maia wrote:If I wanted a compact mirror, I'd buy a compact. I can't believe they use that as a marketing feature. That's kind of silly.
:lol: Well, I suppose since their target market is females. I use my little compact mirror in my purse if I want to dig out that sprig of broccoli stuck in between my teeth. :P
I usually just go the washroom and check the mirror there. :P

I think they're targeting a specific type of female with that particular feature. Not all women would be sold by the fact that the computer can double as a compact. I hate the stupid ways tech products are supposedly made more appealing to women. I wear make-up, but I sure as hell wouldn't use my computer to check it. It has far better uses than that. *resists the urge to rant further on the marketing stereotypes*

Anyway, if you know you're just using it for casual stuff, Jules, then I'm sure that's fine. You'll definitely appreciate the portability when lugging it around with a bunch of books. I just hope you at least have access to another computer if they make some higher-requirement adventure games in the next few years. ;)
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Jules »

AndreaDraco wrote:Congratulations Jules!

I'm so happy that you were accepted!
Thank you, Andrea, Maia and DPX! :D I am SO ready to get out of this hamster wheel and take on a new challenge.
dpx wrote:Some laptops last longer than others. A lot of it comes down to whatever settings you choose and which programs you run. As I said before, the battery life companies advertise is a fraction of what you'll really get, so you'll want to buy the best battery possible.
So I could buy a better battery then? What settings would be better for a longer battery life... like dimming the brightness? I worked with Win7 a bit at work and I didn't like all the fancy effects. It reminded me too much of a Mac. I use the classic setting even on my XP desktop. Will Premium have the classic setting too?
dpx wrote:Holy crap. That means my laptop's 15" screen is larger than your desktop's monitor!
Well, I don't have glasses, nor do I need them and my monitor is situated about a foot and a half away from how I sit. I just never needed the extra space. :P
collector wrote:It has allowed me to use my old scanner that had no drivers for Win7-64.
Is there any way I can tell beforehand if my current scanner and printer will work on Win7 Premium? That's kinda a pain in the behind. I could always purchase Professional separately I suppose. I wonder if I could install my current XP software onto the laptop... :D
maia wrote:*resists the urge to rant further on the marketing stereotypes*
I completely understand. ;)
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Tawmis »

Jules wrote:The main reason why I'm looking at this one is because it's small and lightweight. I've received notification that I passed the first stage of acceptance into grad school. YAY!
So they got my death threats if they didn't let you in? Good.

I kid. As if you need any help proving how awesome you are.

Seriously though, Congrats! Well deserved!
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

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Jules wrote:So I could buy a better battery then? What settings would be better for a longer battery life... like dimming the brightness? I worked with Win7 a bit at work and I didn't like all the fancy effects. It reminded me too much of a Mac. I use the classic setting even on my XP desktop. Will Premium have the classic setting too?
Windows 7 has preset power plans which are designed for different situations. Power Saver, for instance, is good when running off the battery, whereas High Performance is designed for being plugged in. You don't have to do it that way and you can always make your own power plan, which is something I recommend. The default power plans aren't always the best.

I honestly don't know if you can use the classic scheme on Windows 7. I've never bothered to do it since I like the Win 7 desktop.

Then again, I also like how Macs look and work. My problem with Apple is their restrictive policies and lack of good non-Apple software (although the latter has been changing in the past few years).
Jules wrote:Well, I don't have glasses, nor do I need them and my monitor is situated about a foot and a half away from how I sit. I just never needed the extra space. :P
I really don't see what "having glasses" has to do with needing (or wanting) a larger monitor. Most of the time a larger monitor simply means for desktop space and higher resolutions. In fact, a higher resolution can sometimes make everything smaller. Icons and text appear larger at 1280x1024 than they do at 1600x1800.
Jules wrote:Is there any way I can tell beforehand if my current scanner and printer will work on Win7 Premium? That's kinda a pain in the behind. I could always purchase Professional separately I suppose. I wonder if I could install my current XP software onto the laptop... :D
Check your scanner's company website. If they have drivers (and possibly updates) for Windows 7, then you'll know for a fact it'll work. However, Windows 7 has most device drivers already installed.

By the way... you'll need to know if you have the 32-bit or 64-bit version of Windows 7. That's not only important for drivers, but knowing how much RAM you can install.
Maiandra wrote:I think they're targeting a specific type of female with that particular feature. Not all women would be sold by the fact that the computer can double as a compact. I hate the stupid ways tech products are supposedly made more appealing to women. I wear make-up, but I sure as hell wouldn't use my computer to check it. It has far better uses than that. *resists the urge to rant further on the marketing stereotypes*
Your run-of-the-mill webcam wouldn't be ideal for that anyway. Most of the time the resolution is too low, plus ghosting often occurs.
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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Jules »

OR...

Patrick is offering me his old Inspiron 9300 laptop with Windows 7 Ultimate so he can get a shiny new one that's even better. But it's big and heavy and I'd rather not lug that thing around while walking a mile to classes. :(

Hard decision. :? :shock: :o

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Re: HP 210 Butterfly Lovers Digital Clutch

Post by Maiandra »

I think that something smaller would be better, if you're going to be carrying it around a lot. Especially if you're carrying it with books and you have a larger campus. I'm sure you can find a happy medium if you look around a bit. :)
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