Dragon Age: Origins.

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DeadPoolX
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by DeadPoolX »

Tawmis wrote:Sorry if it came across as I am God, and the world should listen to me about how single player games should be played! :lol:

Such was definitely not my intention!
Well, I wasn't directing my rant at you. Not really, anyway. :P

It's just you hit on something that really, really pissed me off, so I started ranting.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by AndreaDraco »

A couple of thoughts on the Deep Roads.

I just finished them, for the third time. I took the quickiest route, ignoring every side-quest, and it still took me five hourse to complete them. First questions: is there someone who actually enjoyed the seemingly endless succession of caves and dungeons? I know many players - and our own Tawmis amongst them - hated the Fade, while other loathed the segment in the Brecilian Forest, but I have no doubt: the Orzammar one is my least favorite quest of the game, and by far the most disturbing and gross. I don't have a problem with it, but every time I hear Hespith's rhyme I feel sick. Great work from the writers here.

The second question is spoiler-y, so Spoiler Tags!

How can one possibly choose to side with Branka and keep the Anvil of the Void? I understand the choice if you're roleplaying a really evil character, but otherwise -- even a pragmatist should see that the means, in this case, do not justify the end. It's one of the things that irks me about this quest. The Brecilian one posed some great moral challenges - even if Zathrian was clearly a bad guy, you could understand his reasons and there was a way to convince him to lift the curse, giving way to a very sad, very touching moment between him and the Lady - and the same did the Redcliffe one, but for me "A Paragon of Her Kind" is too straight-forward: Branka is obviously insane, she allowed her House to be captured and abused by the darkspawn, she used the others as cannon fodder and she has no trouble killing dwarves to make Golems. She is too "black," without any moral shades to her.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Tawmis »

AndreaDraco wrote: A couple of thoughts on the Deep Roads.
I just finished them, for the third time. I took the quickiest route, ignoring every side-quest, and it still took me five hourse to complete them. First questions: is there someone who actually enjoyed the seemingly endless succession of caves and dungeons? I know many players - and our own Tawmis amongst them - hated the Fade, while other loathed the segment in the Brecilian Forest, but I have no doubt: the Orzammar one is my least favorite quest of the game, and by far the most disturbing and gross. I don't have a problem with it, but every time I hear Hespith's rhyme I feel sick. Great work from the writers here.
I love a good Dungeon Crawl! I grew up in a time of WIZARDRY (one of the most awesome classic RPG games!) But the FADE drives me crazy. Like I said, once you get ANY form past JUST the mouse... then the Fade is fine. I hated being the mouse and going to the different holes, not remembering which hole teleported you where. (Reminds me too much of Wizardry 7's ending... which you teleport your way up to the top of this tower... I hated it... because it took extensive mapping, with all those damn teleporters to know what teleporter went to what room - and sometimes, it'd teleport you into the same room, different location... so you'd THINK it was a new room, when it actually wasn't!)

So, for the Deep Roads, the Forest - those I didn't mind. There was no teleporting around. :) And once you get any of the other 3 remaining forms in the Fade, then the Fade becomes tolerable too. But if I had to chalk up the worse part - I'd say the Fade.

The downside to that is - unless you play a Mage, you're going to need a healer. And Wynne is the best healer (by default, you could technically make Morrigan or however you spell her name, a healer or whatever). So I tell people, "Do the Tower as soon as you can; so you can get Wynne for healing. You're going to hate The Fade. Do Deep Roads last. Because there's not much to gain there, as you can have a warrior type with both Alistar and Sten. (Assuming you're not playing a Warrior yourself)." So if someone asked me my worse part - I'd say the Fade, every time. But it doesn't mean I despise it and wish I could skip it! (Even with the newly mentioned Mod, I would do the Fade, just to pick up the bonus stats you get in various rooms - all of which are, ironically, accessed through the mouse holes). :lol:
AndreaDraco wrote: The second question is spoiler-y, so Spoiler Tags!

How can one possibly choose to side with Branka and keep the Anvil of the Void? I understand the choice if you're roleplaying a really evil character, but otherwise -- even a pragmatist should see that the means, in this case, do not justify the end. It's one of the things that irks me about this quest. The Brecilian one posed some great moral challenges - even if Zathrian was clearly a bad guy, you could understand his reasons and there was a way to convince him to lift the curse, giving way to a very sad, very touching moment between him and the Lady - and the same did the Redcliffe one, but for me "A Paragon of Her Kind" is too straight-forward: Branka is obviously insane, she allowed her House to be captured and abused by the darkspawn, she used the others as cannon fodder and she has no trouble killing dwarves to make Golems. She is too "black," without any moral shades to her.

What do you guys think?
I think Branka needs to die. She's obviously - as you stated - utterly demented and has no redeeming value. She's too far gone and impossible to reason with. Even Zathrian, which that part I just finished on the PC - he can be reasoned with, despite all of his hatred.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Maiandra »

I actually liked both the Brecilian forest and the Fade. I tend to like exploring outdoor areas the most, but the trippy Fade was pretty cool and I liked the puzzles as well.

I didn't mind Orzammar and the Deep Roads to begin with, but it quickly became oppressive. Until I got to the end where you start finding out more about the Darkspawn, it felt like it dragged on too much. I found Hespith's rhyme really creepy as well. The entire idea of the broodmothers was disturbing. :shock: However, I also appreciated that part because it was disturbing. I agree that it was impressive story-wise.

I think someone could agree to side with Branka if they felt that the Darkspawn had to be destroyed at any cost. They may not agree with what she did, but if they feel her "technology" is needed, then they may overlook it, if they are a "the ends justifies the means" type of person. Regardless of their decision, they can't change what she did.

Doubtless, an army of golems would fare better against Darkspawn than an army of flesh and blood people, who would most likely die anyway. They could possibly justify it to themselves by either taking people already sick or dying to become Darkspawn or using criminals. I could see that kind of logic from a ruthless, single-minded Grey Warden, since their primary concern is supposed to be killing the Darkspawn.

The nuances of the Grey Warden job are left up to the individual Warden. Mine wouldn't have done that, but I could see it happening, if someone wanted to role-play the character that way. It would probably be quite a moral cost to the person, though.

From a storytelling perspective, it is especially effective to make the Warden make that decision after seeing just how bad the Darkspawn really are. The creation of the Broodmothers seemed to me so much worse than the fate of the average person who just died in battle or was eaten. It really brings home the horror of what Darkspawn are and reinforces why they need to be destroyed, especially for a female Grey Warden.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Tawmis »

Maiandra wrote: I think someone could agree to side with Branka if they felt that the Darkspawn had to be destroyed at any cost. They may not agree with what she did, but if they feel her "technology" is needed, then they may overlook it, if they are a "the ends justifies the means" type of person.

Doubtless, an army of golems would fare better against Darkspawn than an army of flesh and blood people, who would most likely die anyway. They could possibly justify it to themselves by either taking people already sick or dying to become Darkspawn or using criminals. I could see that kind of logic from a ruthless, single-minded Grey Warden, since their primary concern is supposed to be killing the Darkspawn.
Hrm!

You raise an outstanding point. Because, the matter of the Grey Wardens... they're almost like her. Because the Grey Warden taken in the Darkspawn Blood to become what they are - no different really, then when she turned dwarves to Golems. They're on the same parallel. And if you look at the risks - obviously some don't make it from drinking the Darkspawn Blood. And then there's those - as we have seen who refuse to take it when they're there - and Duncan cuts them down, despite his protests of having a family and kids.

What if, the game took on the perspective of you're a dwarf turned into a Golem to fight the Darkspawn - would Branka be so crazy then? Or would she be equal to Duncan?
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Tawmis »

OHMYFRAKKINGAWD.

I can not believe I just did that.

Went to take down Flemeth... (I mean most of my part is level 25)... and she DUSTED me. With MINIMAL effort. MINIMAL.

And... my last save?

A long, long time ago, in a fantasy world far, far away.

*head desk*

I had to exit the game out of frustration (despite it was my own stupidity...)
:cry:
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by DeadPoolX »

Wow. Level 25 and you lost to Flemeth? What difficulty level are you playing on? I can't imagine that happening even on Hard. I wonder if enemies scale up at all when you're a higher level yourself.

I'm surprised you forgot to save. Wouldn't you at least have a quicksave or two? What about autosaves? There must be some saved game that doesn't put you back too far.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Rath Darkblade »

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure the game would have auto-saved as you approach Flemeth's hut, Tawm (or just before you speak to her!). Did your game CTD?

That raises another point for me. Despite the fact that I like this game very much ("love" is too strong a word for me to use for a game, but anyway...), from time to time, DA:O minimises-to-desktop (particularly during some NPC's monologue) or simply crashes-to-desktop (especially during combat - argh!)

Are these known issues, and if so, are there any fixes/patches?

(By the way, I'd just run this game to check my game version - I can't find it, but just below the "Logged Out" button on the bottom left, I noticed my ACTUAL email address - as in, name at address dot etc. :| Is there a way not to have that show up? I'd rather not have it there, identifying me - if I need to log in, I'd rather *type* it in and then clear it away afterwards if possible...) :?

Thanks! :)
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Tawmis »

DeadPoolX wrote:Wow. Level 25 and you lost to Flemeth? What difficulty level are you playing on? I can't imagine that happening even on Hard. I wonder if enemies scale up at all when you're a higher level yourself.

I'm surprised you forgot to save. Wouldn't you at least have a quicksave or two? What about autosaves? There must be some saved game that doesn't put you back too far.
Auto Save was way back at the Werewolf Lair (just before entering to see the Lady). By then I had gone to Denerim (second or third time there), to sell, swap around armor, etc, made camp, made my rounds of talking, then decided to go after Flemeth.

I believe I am playing on Medium/Normal (the default). The thing is, I took myself (Rogue), Alistar, Sten and Wynne. Flem's rending did me in, within two shots. (Alistar tried to hold her with taunt, but couldn't). Once I was down, it switched me to Alistar - which, ironically - this was the first time dying with this group thus far - so all of Alistar's hotkeys were randomly set by the computer - which did me no good. So I tried to make due with it (which did no good), because while I was managing to damage Flemeth far more with Alistar - by then, she had taken out Sten, then Wynne, then widdled me down as Alistar (I only survived as long as I did by quaffing potions which I had taken time to hotkey by pausing the battle, once Alistar was all that remained).

She SEEMS to have scaled with the level; because even when I went through this the first time I played way back when - I remember dying and going, "Okay, now I know what to expect." It took a few go arounds, but I got her back then. This time, she seemed VERY vicious and VERY damaging. :lol:

But this is my first time actually going after her as a rogue. First time I was a warrior. Second time I was a mage. I did a rogue on the PC before, but on that one - struck the deal with Flem to let her go. Figured I'd do it differently this time.

Also noticed, since I took a different skill set - a quest that I missed the first time around, was open to this rogue in Denerim (sp?) about robbing places...

EDIT: Seeing Rath's post. No, it does not auto save when you approach Flem.

And as for the email address, just log out. Just know it won't upload your achievements and screenshots to the social.bioware.com server - should you care.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by DeadPoolX »

Rath Darkblade wrote:(By the way, I'd just run this game to check my game version - I can't find it, but just below the "Logged Out" button on the bottom left, I noticed my ACTUAL email address - as in, name at address dot etc. :| Is there a way not to have that show up? I'd rather not have it there, identifying me - if I need to log in, I'd rather *type* it in and then clear it away afterwards if possible...) :?
Your email is always shown on the menu screen. If you're logged out, however, you're the only who sees it.

Since you have the Ultimate Edition, you should already be fully patched to version 1.04. To find out, double-click on "DAOriginsConfig.exe".

No, I don't know exactly where it is, so look through your DA:O directory (and I can't look since I uninstalled DA:O). Make sure to look in both Program Files and My Documents.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by Maxor127 »

I also hate dungeon crawls. That's probably why I'm not a huge Diablo fan. The more overland/city exploration a game has the better. Dungeons just seem like a cheap and easy way to stick you in a generic area filled with monsters. In fact, I prefer character interaction over combat, which is one reason I like Bioware RPGs so much.

As for cheating games. I agree, if it's not competitive multiplayer, then it's not a big deal. Sometimes I mod a game, but mostly for aesthetic reasons or I'll mod something that I find tedious or stupid, like an inventory/encumberance mod.

Or as Fallout 3 bored me more and more, I modded weapon durability because I was sick of repairing weapons and collecting guns. And I modded how you get experience because I was sick of Charon stealing my XP with his shotgun just because he did more damage. I still haven't won that game, though because the endless dark "dungeons" are boring the hell out of me.

In Oblivion, I used a mod that changed the way loot and monsters leveled with you because the thought of super bandits in Daedric armor sounded stupid to me.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by AndreaDraco »

Maiandra wrote:I think someone could agree to side with Branka if they felt that the Darkspawn had to be destroyed at any cost. They may not agree with what she did, but if they feel her "technology" is needed, then they may overlook it, if they are a "the ends justifies the means" type of person. Regardless of their decision, they can't change what she did.

Doubtless, an army of golems would fare better against Darkspawn than an army of flesh and blood people, who would most likely die anyway. They could possibly justify it to themselves by either taking people already sick or dying to become Darkspawn or using criminals. I could see that kind of logic from a ruthless, single-minded Grey Warden, since their primary concern is supposed to be killing the Darkspawn.
I understand your reasoning and I agree with it. However, there is something so inherently evil, cruel and soulless in the process of making Golmes, that I can't see any of my Wardens, not even the most driven and down-to-earth, preserving it and allowing Branka to continue her research. Interestingly enough, I have far less problems when it comes to Blood Magic or, say, Avernus' reseach. They are obviously perilous and morally questionable like the Anvil of the Void, but they don't struck me as inherently malicious.
Maiandra wrote:The creation of the Broodmothers seemed to me so much worse than the fate of the average person who just died in battle or was eaten.
I agree. It's really terrifying. Disturbing. And while that's good from a storytelling perspective, I'm always happy when I leave the Dead Trenches behind ;)
Tawmis wrote:I believe I am playing on Medium/Normal (the default). The thing is, I took myself (Rogue), Alistar, Sten and Wynne.
Why Sten? Why? :lol:

Seriously, I don't think this is a very good party to tackle Flemeth, unless you respecced Wynne. I mean, you are going to need some good crowd-control spells to root Flemeth, paralyze her, freeze her and allow your damagers to attack her freely, without her paws and tails getting in the way of a good backstab. Cone of Cold, Glyph of Paralysis, Paralyze, Massa Paralysis, Blizzard, Force Field (even on the tank, to keep him alive, if needed): you'll need them ;)
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by DeadPoolX »

AndreaDraco wrote:
Maiandra wrote: I think someone could agree to side with Branka if they felt that the Darkspawn had to be destroyed at any cost. They may not agree with what she did, but if they feel her "technology" is needed, then they may overlook it, if they are a "the ends justifies the means" type of person. Regardless of their decision, they can't change what she did.

Doubtless, an army of golems would fare better against Darkspawn than an army of flesh and blood people, who would most likely die anyway. They could possibly justify it to themselves by either taking people already sick or dying to become Darkspawn or using criminals. I could see that kind of logic from a ruthless, single-minded Grey Warden, since their primary concern is supposed to be killing the Darkspawn.
I understand your reasoning and I agree with it. However, there is something so inherently evil, cruel and soulless in the process of making Golmes, that I can't see any of my Wardens, not even the most driven and down-to-earth, preserving it and allowing Branka to continue her research. Interestingly enough, I have far less problems when it comes to Blood Magic or, say, Avernus' reseach. They are obviously perilous and morally questionable like the Anvil of the Void, but they don't struck me as inherently malicious.
My Warden didn't side with Branka because HE wouldn't. It's not his style. But if you think about it, my Warden "abandoned" his duty. Grey Wardens are there to fight the Darkspawn and if that means being ruthless in their efforts, so be it.

If I was put in that situation and I had to consider the overall threat the Darkspawn posed and what sort damage they could do, I'd probably side with Branka. It'd be a tough choice, but when fighting an enemy who has near limitless numbers and lead by an Archdemon, you need all the firepower you can get.

Let the politicians debate the morality of the decision after the war is won.

Besides, there would have to be rules set when creating golems. How many, who, where from, etc. The formation and use of golems would be governed like any other military unit.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by AndreaDraco »

DeadPoolX wrote:Besides, there would have to be rules set when creating golems. How many, who, where from, etc. The formation and use of golems would be governed like any other military unit.
Do you really think that Branka would have stopped? Do you think that she would have abided by the rules? I don't think so.

You're right: being a Grey Warden means that your primary objective is to fight darkspawn. But where do you draw the line? I think my Warden's limit is Branka and what she did to her House, her lover and her followers.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins.

Post by DeadPoolX »

AndreaDraco wrote:
DeadPoolX wrote:Besides, there would have to be rules set when creating golems. How many, who, where from, etc. The formation and use of golems would be governed like any other military unit.
Do you really think that Branka would have stopped? Do you think that she would have abided by the rules? I don't think so.

You're right: being a Grey Warden means that your primary objective is to fight darkspawn. But where do you draw the line? I think my Warden's limit is Branka and what she did to her House, her lover and her followers.
The solution is simple: learn everything she knows and then kill her. She's no longer needed and once dead, no threat anyone.

The Grey Wardens would then have complete access to golems creation and could use that knowledge, if absolutely necessary, when fighting the Darkspawn.
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